From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alex Hanif Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12635: A usability issue with the save dialog box Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:37:48 +0200 Message-ID: References: <878vba2xk2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1350203954 15951 80.91.229.3 (14 Oct 2012 08:39:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:39:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 12635@debbugs.gnu.org To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 14 10:39:19 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJj8-0006XU-8A for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 10:39:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35331 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJj1-0001xj-Kp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:56620) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJiy-0001xQ-K3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJix-00056T-3i for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:32960) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJiw-00056N-Vy for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJju-000450-SY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:40:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alex Hanif Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:40:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12635 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12635-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12635.135020395915630 (code B ref 12635); Sun, 14 Oct 2012 08:40:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12635) by debbugs.gnu.org; 14 Oct 2012 08:39:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43211 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJjC-000442-Ae for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-we0-f172.google.com ([74.125.82.172]:36458) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1TNJj8-00043o-Us for 12635@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 04:39:16 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id u46so2547394wey.3 for <12635@debbugs.gnu.org>; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:38:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=vG/xsJgxX5acDm5kYBfrd71dKo9yodEKHoKk1QT/xX4=; b=rHW8m97z/moccAIFp2jseeZR8EdKEdw55asZcEXeqgSfuybbGphU9Thp7yQtUMts89 7PuHvQ1GLMStDqZw46bcpOcGwffPNdCP6k/JTX4uHu9WmJGM9cvXt4D/3A7UEBQSKv8U 4dsGnTOJpKWt1vl9A3+mWbyNZW+Aw/K4i5WopYeswSifauTvXdbRlTDZLgeX/fd4131M PA0pWkda8fkSO3G8L2rnQSMN02XNKAUUENHgp0FKxiIN6sDFxopWdaOUXWsaaHBLAACa AKYvk+uxA1vRLOu/z4Bynd4hmVP5zq3cC/U204y/QtwO9WIGcpYWEQ4gAM4RGmYkG4Zu G7gw== Original-Received: by 10.216.198.80 with SMTP id u58mr4897286wen.204.1350203888611; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.216.245.79 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:37:48 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <878vba2xk2.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:65581 Archived-At: --00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thanks Eli, Andreas, Juri, I have reviewed the design based on your suggestions. Please find the new muckups with the design elaborations at the end of that blog post here: http://user.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/ Thank you, +Alex Hanif ----------------------- This message is confidential and copyrighted. The contents and attachment(s) are solely intended for the explicitly mentioned recipient(s). Forwarding, replying to another addresses, copying, printing and distributing parts of it or as a whole in any form to any other person or 3rd party is prohibited except with prior permission. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all copies of the original message and possible distributions and inform me. On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Juri Linkov wrote: > > Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs. > > The most user-friendly UI would tell the user what pressing the button > will do exactly. So instead of buttons "Yes"/"No", it would display > more explicit text in buttons: "Save"/"Don't save" or "Save"/"Discard". > > OTOH, Emacs is special in this regard that actions in the dialog box > have their counterparts in the non-GUI version where "y" and "n" are keys > to save or skip the buffer. With the goal to maintain compatibility > between these two versions, the GUI version could provide accelerator keys > in the button text like "_Y_es" and "_N_o". > > But in case when these versions will diverge from each other, > and also for the final question > > Modified buffers exist; exit anyway? > > still more explicit "Yes, discard changes"/"No, cancel" or > "Yes, close without saving"/"No, cancel" would be better. > > "Don't quit" to cancel the dialog is very necessary, yes, > but a link in a dialog box a quite non-standard element. > Much simpler would be to just add the button "Cancel". > > Removing the option "View This Buffer" could be accompanied with > displaying the buffer in question unconditionally (this suggestion > pertains to the non-GUI version as well). > > Regarding the multi-file operation, some applications solve this problem > by displaying a list of all unsaved files to help the user decide what > to do with all of them. > > Emacs already does the same for running processes by displaying their list > and asking a simple question: > > Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? "Yes"/"No" > > I wonder why not to do the same for unsaved buffers? > --00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Eli, Andreas, Juri, I have reviewed the design based on your suggestions. Please find the new m= uckups with the design elaborations at the end of that blog post here:=A0http://user.w= ordpress.com/2012/10/13/emacs-has-a-confusing-save-dialogue-box/
Thank you,
+Alex Hanif
------= -----------------
This message is confidential and copyrighted. The cont= ents and attachment(s) are solely intended for the explicitly mentioned rec= ipient(s). Forwarding, replying to another addresses, copying, printing and= distributing parts of it or as a whole in any form to any other person or = 3rd party is prohibited except with prior permission. If you are not the in= tended recipient, please destroy all copies of the original message and pos= sible distributions and inform me.


On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 6:05 PM, Juri Li= nkov <juri@jurta.org> wrote:
> Please let me know if I can help improve Emacs.

The most user-friendly UI would tell the user what pressing the butto= n
will do exactly. =A0So instead of buttons "Yes"/"No", i= t would display
more explicit text in buttons: "Save"/"Don't save" = or "Save"/"Discard".

OTOH, Emacs is special in this regard that actions in the dialog box
have their counterparts in the non-GUI version where "y" and &quo= t;n" are keys
to save or skip the buffer. =A0With the goal to maintain compatibility
between these two versions, the GUI version could provide accelerator keys<= br> in the button text like "_Y_es" and "_N_o".

But in case when these versions will diverge from each other,
and also for the final question

=A0 Modified buffers exist; exit anyway?

still more explicit "Yes, discard changes"/"No, cancel"= or
"Yes, close without saving"/"No, cancel" would be bette= r.

"Don't quit" to cancel the dialog is very necessary, yes,
but a link in a dialog box a quite non-standard element.
Much simpler would be to just add the button "Cancel".

Removing the option "View This Buffer" could be accompanied with<= br> displaying the buffer in question unconditionally (this suggestion
pertains to the non-GUI version as well).

Regarding the multi-file operation, some applications solve this problem by displaying a list of all unsaved files to help the user decide what
to do with all of them.

Emacs already does the same for running processes by displaying their list<= br> and asking a simple question:

=A0 Active processes exist; kill them and exit anyway? "Yes"/&quo= t;No"

I wonder why not to do the same for unsaved buffers?

--00504502b03b27b1ce04cc00d76a--