From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Evgeny Zajcev Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrolling up at the end of buffer Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 16:52:18 +0300 Message-ID: References: <83im9hep1x.fsf@gnu.org> <83ft4lenp2.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b1d7505b5a3c9c2" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11331"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 04 14:53:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1klBWW-0002od-9I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 14:53:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59362 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klBWU-000631-BA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 08:53:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44814) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klBVi-0005CR-ME for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 08:52:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]:36961) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klBVh-0001Mp-0i; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 08:52:34 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id s30so7724721lfc.4; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 05:52:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=U7QHqz3aeSj25qHeOTmy2Am26E/W3fDQRGk1DwsamXA=; b=GGN6FkgBCNmif74vdAzsX4cnz04wFgcC7Jh7dLg/aGYTaJ6/QlqWV5+EsVrL64nzyq 3ediNg704q3n2gDjfzx8rmQj7V1sWJKMIku2QgXmSOaqehQA83eNlOoWR76Yn6rEOrJb cPgYhdmlsnE8KmvARZTLYk6aZdwAEGw02EYdDvs2BJNE8iHv5O4drJSmPHppTFOHWkJ/ LKewclPFgKeiGFPFdfOKuMTD1IfRBBAetkNGwzoS+GtEKonnErgN2L9RT5umvT9WODJM b3o/8QPqSsJCcGKoh9njSji900PYlHQVolohryTb8byiF3AcJCI5znYAPwD13jDR9+/u ODkg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=U7QHqz3aeSj25qHeOTmy2Am26E/W3fDQRGk1DwsamXA=; b=Sn5HGp2sUWXLlQ9LY4F5SzhbF6NYb2OhG2XfSCBm1b5FRQlvMPo9YFHF+tmM2ebQmN wA15YS4pUvjZjLlD5kEDSCVeko653c6HDDDvPPbrPACj1kqUx91tEWhjoOU2sCHeLdzV mmyhYYKCWE7U2L4JE4+cgH4f9GjEKEnsWrW05yG/GM6Y8GVY59xY7VBMyR+lN4Siu9Uz x+u7eXSEAzzzqwW3GIhueTTSFP3PhxVecqEoaWgxbE40FnLue8+oZT0zrsWu8AhSG1ZI xKRRc1rQvNVwS+qoX00MS/K5Ws3RXJ1KsOghD5bDHL4hxoS3DbMYb6BVZ1WIf/B8rXOZ yUIA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5335oHlDwxUGoQUICNxLhiH3j+IKSZnrjRsv0ALy5d5EWZxXBYv8 HQaJkTr4h11MeJOZ9Dg887Wi6G5fHxF6SQoGc0MT5urb X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxAdzM5rWjR7h16wr5/Zv55lzJT3z4/Ise1dKlPXfn7ftWidr7emeV6ylSnFtjhFdMn96M0wgA8yqVqRvKXKK8= X-Received: by 2002:a19:7911:: with SMTP id u17mr3395983lfc.466.1607089950234; Fri, 04 Dec 2020 05:52:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83ft4lenp2.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::12d; envelope-from=lg.zevlg@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x12d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:260294 Archived-At: --0000000000009b1d7505b5a3c9c2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =D0=BF=D1=82, 4 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2020 =D0=B3. =D0=B2 15:54, Eli Zaretski= i : > > From: Evgeny Zajcev > > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:40:31 +0300 > > Cc: emacs-devel > > > > (FWIW, I don't see this behavior as unexpected or "nasty".) > > > > It was unexpected default behaviour, because why scrolling if there is > nothing to show more? > > But there is: the context lines. > But they are invisible :) As I understand, context lines is option to skip less lines then window height when scrolling. However, it heavily affects how scrolling is done. For example in non-0 context lines setup, when you scroll down (with M-v) from the very bottom of the buffer and only one line is display in the buffer at moment, scrolling won't even move a point! just show more content. At least now, I see this context lines concept very complex, undocumented, triggering unexpected results. For me, scrolling is just a way to *move* your point fast in a predictable way, showing maximum content to the user, that is not what we get with default Emacs settings right now. I would like to have scroll behaviour I got with setting context lines to 0, but yet skip less lines then window height :)) --=20 lg --0000000000009b1d7505b5a3c9c2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=D0=BF=D1=82, 4 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA. 2020 = =D0=B3. =D0=B2 15:54, Eli Zaretskii <eli= z@gnu.org>:
> From: Evgeny Zajcev <lg.zevlg@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2020 15:40:31 +0300
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
>
>=C2=A0 (FWIW, I don't see this behavior as unexpected or "nast= y".)
>
> It was unexpected default behaviour, because why scrolling if there is= nothing to show more?

But there is: the context lines.

But th= ey are invisible :)

As I understand, context = lines is option to skip less lines then window height when scrolling.=C2=A0= However, it heavily affects how scrolling is done.=C2=A0 For example in no= n-0 context lines setup, when you scroll down (with M-v) from the very bott= om of the buffer and only one line is display in the buffer at moment, scro= lling won't even move a point!=C2=A0 just show more content.=C2=A0 At l= east now, I see this context lines concept very complex, undocumented, trig= gering unexpected results.

For me, scrolling is ju= st a way to *move* your point fast in a predictable way, showing maximum co= ntent to the user, that is not what we get with default Emacs settings righ= t now.

I would like to have scroll behaviour I got= with setting context lines to 0, but yet skip less lines then window heigh= t :))

--
lg
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