bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
version.

-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

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bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:

> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
> However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
> version.

I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
*suppress* that warning type.

Perhaps we can choose a different Emoji to avoid confusion.  I don't
mind showing ⚠️ as the icon for that button, indeed.

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

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Yes, it would create less confusion IMvvvHO

Thanks, /PA

On Mon, 16 Jan 2023 at 10:58, Daniel Martín <mardani29@yahoo.es> wrote:

> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
> > However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
> > version.
>
> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
> *suppress* that warning type.
>
> Perhaps we can choose a different Emoji to avoid confusion.  I don't
> mind showing ⚠️ as the icon for that button, indeed.
>


-- 
Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run
a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1548 bytes --]

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Jim Porter]

On 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the 
Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
>> However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
>> version.
> 
> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
> *suppress* that warning type.

I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the ⛔ icon is "No 
Entry", so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way 
because there's a problem ahead."

Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No 
Entry Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means 
"No ____", e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited 
emoji.

Another way to handle the UI (which I see more often, and personally 
prefer) is that the button is a toggle, and its icon indicates the 
current state. This would require adding a bit of code so that clicking 
the button again *un*suppresses the warning, but then you could use 
something like ⚠️ to indicate that the warning is currently enabled (and 
clicking it will suppress it), and maybe ⚪ or ⚬ to indicate that the 
warning is currently suppressed (and clicking it will reenable it). Or 
maybe ❗ and ❕, respectively?

We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite 
right, and use the emoji as a fallback.

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez]

From a European driver’s POV, the signs that seemed to make most sense to me on the other side of the pond were the warning signs, maybe because they were triangles too…

;-)

/PA

Enviado desde mi iPhone

> El 16 ene 2023, a las 20:30, Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> escribió:
> 
> On 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors wrote:
>> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
>>> However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
>>> version.
>> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
>> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
>> *suppress* that warning type.
> 
> I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the ⛔ icon is "No Entry", so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way because there's a problem ahead."
> 
> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____", e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
> 
> Another way to handle the UI (which I see more often, and personally prefer) is that the button is a toggle, and its icon indicates the current state. This would require adding a bit of code so that clicking the button again *un*suppresses the warning, but then you could use something like ⚠️ to indicate that the warning is currently enabled (and clicking it will suppress it), and maybe ⚪ or ⚬ to indicate that the warning is currently suppressed (and clicking it will reenable it). Or maybe ❗ and ❕, respectively?
> 
> We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite right, and use the emoji as a fallback.

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Kévin Le Gouguec]

(Passing by, can't remember the whole thread, sorry if what I'm
suggesting has already be said)

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:

> On 1/16/2023 1:58 AM, Daniel Martín via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss
> army knife of text editors wrote:
>> Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> Currently, warnings are visually "enhanced" with a ⛔ sign.
>>> However, the warning signs are ⚠️ or its slightly different European
>>> version.
>> I had the same question as you, but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not
>> intended to represent a warning, it is a button that you can click to
>> *suppress* that warning type.
>
> I think the confusion is that the literal meaning of the ⛔ icon is "No Entry",
> so it's very easy to read it as, "Stop! Don't go this way because there's a
> problem ahead."
>
> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry
> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.

(My ¢2: wouldn't a cross mark (❌) also work to convey the idea of
"suppressing" something?)

> We could also add actual images for this icon if none of these are quite right,
> and use the emoji as a fallback.

The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
degree of control via icon-preference.

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Jim Porter]

On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, Kévin Le Gouguec wrote:
> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:
>> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry
>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
> 
> (My ¢2: wouldn't a cross mark (❌) also work to convey the idea of
> "suppressing" something?)

That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button 
where the icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - 
⚠️ - or has it been suppressed - ⚬). But changing to 🚫 or ❌ would be 
single-character patches, which is nice too.

> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
> degree of control via icon-preference.

Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:

  (define-icon warnings-suppress button
     '((emoji "⛔")
       (symbol " ■ ")
       (text " stop "))
     "Suppress warnings."
     :version "29.1"
     :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Kévin Le Gouguec]

Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:

> On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, Kévin Le Gouguec wrote:
>> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry
>>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
>>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
>> (My ¢2: wouldn't a cross mark (❌) also work to convey the idea of
>> "suppressing" something?)
>
> That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button where the
> icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - ⚠️ - or has it been
> suppressed - ⚬). But changing to 🚫 or ❌ would be single-character patches,
> which is nice too.

Sure, the toggle sounds like a nice idea regardless, since IIUC right
now a user has to go through Customize to take warnings off either
warning-suppress-*types.

(Sorry for the idle musing, this is the first time I look at what knobs
 warnings.el lets the user tweak.

 As things stand, if a user doesn't want to completely ignore a warning,
 their only choices seem to be "pop *Warnings*" or "meh, tuck it in
 *Warnings* but don't pop; hopefully I'll remember to check that buffer
 someday", is that correct?

 Might be nice to have further options for "suppression", e.g.…

 "don't pop the *Warnings* buffer, but display in echo area", or
                               "…  but add a modeline indicator"

 … but that's its own feature request)

>> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
>> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
>> degree of control via icon-preference.
>
> Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:
>
>   (define-icon warnings-suppress button
>     '((emoji "⛔")
>       (symbol " ■ ")
>       (text " stop "))
>     "Suppress warnings."
>     :version "29.1"
>     :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

(Ah, great, so we're only missing an 'image entry for that one.  Just a
trivial matter of choosing what the image should look like then 😁)

Thanks for the answers 🙏

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Robert Pluim]

>>>>> On Wed, 18 Jan 2023 07:51:19 +0100, Kévin Le Gouguec <kevin.legouguec@gmail.com> said:

    Kévin> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:
    >> On 1/17/2023 2:19 PM, Kévin Le Gouguec wrote:
    >>> Jim Porter <jporterbugs@gmail.com> writes:
    >>>> Perhaps a bit better would be 🚫, whose official name is apparently "No Entry
    >>>> Sign", even though the slashed circle visual usually just means "No ____",
    >>>> e.g. "No Smoking". Hence, some sources call it the Prohibited emoji.
    >>> (My ¢2: wouldn't a cross mark (❌) also work to convey the idea of
    >>> "suppressing" something?)
    >> 
    >> That would work too. I still like turning this into a toggle button where the
    >> icon shows the current state (i.e. is it an active warning - ⚠️ - or has it been
    >> suppressed - ⚬). But changing to 🚫 or ❌ would be single-character patches,
    >> which is nice too.

    Kévin> Sure, the toggle sounds like a nice idea regardless, since IIUC right
    Kévin> now a user has to go through Customize to take warnings off either
    Kévin> warning-suppress-*types.

    Kévin> (Sorry for the idle musing, this is the first time I look at what knobs
    Kévin>  warnings.el lets the user tweak.

    Kévin>  As things stand, if a user doesn't want to completely ignore a warning,
    Kévin>  their only choices seem to be "pop *Warnings*" or "meh, tuck it in
    Kévin>  *Warnings* but don't pop; hopefully I'll remember to check that buffer
    Kévin>  someday", is that correct?

Yes

    Kévin>  Might be nice to have further options for "suppression", e.g.…

    Kévin>  "don't pop the *Warnings* buffer, but display in echo area", or
    Kévin>                                "…  but add a modeline indicator"

    Kévin>  … but that's its own feature request)

Sure. Just donʼt turn that on by default :-)

    >>> The new icons.el that comes with Emacs 29 would be a prime candidate for
    >>> implementing this, right?  It has the advantage of giving the user some
    >>> degree of control via icon-preference.
    >> 
    >> Yup, the icon we have today is implemented via icons.el:
    >> 
    >>   (define-icon warnings-suppress button
    >> '((emoji "⛔")
    >> (symbol " ■ ")
    >> (text " stop "))
    >> "Suppress warnings."
    >> :version "29.1"
    >> :help-echo "Click to suppress this warning type")

    Kévin> (Ah, great, so we're only missing an 'image entry for that one.  Just a
    Kévin> trivial matter of choosing what the image should look like then 😁)

Whilst youʼre changing stuff, the text should not be "stop", it should
be "suppress" or "ignore" or something.

Robert
-- 

bug#60854: Adjust icons shown with warnings

[Rudolf Adamkovič via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

Daniel Martín via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text
editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

> [...] but it turns out that the ⛔ icon is not intended to represent a
> warning, it is a button that you can click to *suppress* that warning type.

Wow!  I have used computers for decades, and I would have never guessed that one
can click the emoji icon to suppress the warning type.  Using Emojis as UI icons
almost always backfires and personally, I find none of the icons proposed in
this thread clear.  But even if I did, I would have never guessed that they
function as buttons.

Rudy
-- 
"Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."
-- Thomas Alva Edison, 1932

Rudolf Adamkovič <salutis@me.com> [he/him]
Studenohorská 25
84103 Bratislava
Slovakia