From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: grammar checking Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2023 17:01:15 +0200 Message-ID: References: <831ql1vzua.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27679"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 03 17:02:34 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLha-0006wT-GM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 17:02:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLgq-0005wA-6y; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:01:48 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLgn-0005vC-E5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:01:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x531.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::531]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjLgl-0004Db-Ov; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 11:01:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x531.google.com with SMTP id eg48so118459588edb.13; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:01:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1680534102; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=VBZviDpgof5GBPNpKAw68s5alkVi30a1uNaKc5oBL2M=; b=RtlkGFYIwTnFoCIKpnewqus4pYBvfIPRkGfsUJnTp4g+o7uzA7KFQF836ETJerA/0Q lTES/IdH2Q/zdHZQhOm73OUy43UUqTsN+HwYNPF4a3DRRpQmsnda9ayxF+FQ6kVQFXR2 3URgZgDWmCqmoxkVKVrzThm6Nb4Wu09VxudVA9YlE/I52E0blEkNb3EHWw9JyoN3va3o OWgXhpcwW9VsPTFB9I02wn2OJi7SCvYtuSz6EGmrT7lYd4oKdQb50YHgk3hyBYbXm2uC SJK2YBmD9IBDuGVJ4fqaetzgxkwN4oj5Kb/iqJDt+pQlgJcV8WYVf+zctCBfHitu+1W7 /YqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1680534102; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=VBZviDpgof5GBPNpKAw68s5alkVi30a1uNaKc5oBL2M=; b=UIxXS0DIBswXPt0cs2grLhYkm+k1S2gqW5EhxizP00dqoiy6N1gJs1CF8qyDepVyAb cpuourcVqkQfTrlKB2amjHwc/IjC+BfeCdiNxrSkJ0yHUYvuRcU+ZWRhT3ztAJNxwpon 2AOm04QaAYx7vXD3wCdO0qnlIiYX11bEAv7h6cB93txZ25IeZrmyA85uo401PtjvDpjO 9g5Fz5CZubXCQOLmw9WylPRrTCU3w6KkJiTjo7n//lm70BYDZs/0PzIA6/K+PJjbrRe8 7NVhleTJLaGRQVvsJocfaX06d4FFzAtge/KpYNAS+SSj3L+ah8tbaVVv+gHj86Kbmwmy oO2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cw6RZ6N9upBLwWZEczXQj9vaAOUNgUnsNfqY07rjN/B/OM9rxr CGQR5M2oJ4un98EovNhGJxBWVyhEgj8aXfzDCJ/9Y4/R5gs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350bVhHGH8wQI+hbgv/OKr2y/eMEpkeztPbcH7OT5nfwrlitfiY2h8AHIUtzSjMp15LGQ2sOItGtLeJYkK8iuWCQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:a146:b0:931:fb3c:f88d with SMTP id bu6-20020a170906a14600b00931fb3cf88dmr18008587ejb.5.1680534101858; Mon, 03 Apr 2023 08:01:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <831ql1vzua.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::531; envelope-from=paaguti@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x531.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305078 Archived-At: Eli writes: > From my POV, if people who write doc strings and manual submissions > for Emacs will be able to have their text proof-read before they > submit it, it will be an advantage, since the patch reviewers will > need to invest less time in finding and fixing their grammar mistakes That could be a valid point, since docstrings require a certain style and a reduced grammar. But I'm just a frustrated potential user ;-) > (although probably not in your submissions). Thanks for the trust, but read them N times before accepting them. As I said, grammar checking and proof-reading come hand in hand and cost time. I'm the first to blush at some things I write when on a hurry or overexcited ;-) /PA On Mon, 3 Apr 2023 at 15:50, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez > > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2023 07:52:23 +0200 > > > > 1. I have worked with different word processors that provide grammar > > checking in addition to spellchecking. At the end of the day, I had to > > ignore 49 suggestions to accept a good one, which I would have caught > > with reasonable proof-reading. Writing is something that needs time. > > And I feel it every day, even for technical writing. And there are no > > shortcuts to that. > > > > 2. I have tried grammar checking on different languages. Yes, I speak > > a couple of languages and I write fluently in four. And at the end, I > > either disable grammar checking or I just leave it there for fun. Some > > suggestions are as good as spellchecking was 20 years ago. And a good > > laugh may be worth it, but seriously, I'd rather not use grammar > > checking when in a hurry. > > > > 3. I'm honoured to count professional writers and journalists among my > > friends and, no, they don't use grammar checking ;-) because they feel > > the tools currently force them into a style of writing which is not > > theirs. > > That's okay: if this will become part of Emacs, it will be an optional > feature, so if you don't find it useful, just don't activate it. Many > features in Emacs exist only for those who find them useful, and this > one is no exception. > > From my POV, if people who write doc strings and manual submissions > for Emacs will be able to have their text proof-read before they > submit it, it will be an advantage, since the patch reviewers will > need to invest less time in finding and fixing their grammar mistakes > (although probably not in your submissions). > > > I feel it would be more urgent to concentrate on spellchecking and see > > how to improve support for languages with word composition on current > > solutions in core Emacs or packages in ELPA. > > We will continue developing and improving our spell-checking features > independently of whether grammar checking will or will not be added. > There's no zero-sum game here; these are two separate features, and > none of them will come at the expense of the other. -- Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden, Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden Georg Kreisler Headaches with a Juju log: unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet