From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Small correction to commit ae2463796f236b8ee2cef3b5e38bffa13abd2233 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 10:13:20 +0200 Message-ID: References: <86jzfr61xr.fsf@gnu.org> <87zfonr0a6.fsf@gmx.net> <87seufqws2.fsf@gmx.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000083510d06216efce2" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36967"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stephen Berman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 06 10:14:31 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1smU6w-0009Vn-Rm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 10:14:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1smU6P-0006Nv-Go; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 04:13:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1smU6L-0006Az-SP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 04:13:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52f.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1smU6I-0004Iy-L7; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 04:13:53 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52f.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c3c30e6649so2185900a12.2; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 01:13:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1725610427; x=1726215227; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FU4RveUj2fuFX/FtQkcyA+X5NMTFC+wQYQD5l8NjwHw=; b=my8evmYL02tBwtf2CWYHYz4SlwrwUuBxLuFcUDTkMEI4T2OCyIel51t/+N39OahVuu nVFb1QPqVc94HevOi5Wnnolir3a7mCbsSXpV2tH8jUZ2AFmu4LlBobps7ZpSYdrOLHpK psZL26Km113T4NhQ2YmB+q3D226Y0eBFC5utcyvZsDdwOVWyjQjn466rGXHIMRZvIAFP 8rGeopFz8TWmzJ2yXHSbATdWZdYt3afuBWNfkftzGT3jssZo6xUGX2OrWaqRpHG+kAiG MbyuIlzegiUg5HlO9ZPBzsiDece6gGb3JGcgw9BES4Twu15XgO+7itPx7RPL3oYEPcW9 y/fg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1725610427; x=1726215227; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=FU4RveUj2fuFX/FtQkcyA+X5NMTFC+wQYQD5l8NjwHw=; b=tp2+9zFUmv8BjDG0Yw3aj9jbOmUmXIK8Scx2P7xYg+KV/7vIBVpVxKqEX8vBAtRdm+ ZAjvO1AeaAa6DL6hly8mjV5wrTen8BQ8gWHulfFpmSJGoKznqDs8HXkc38MOdk+FgIAU bI8NwmDW4YVvoDeCKNbG4EaiYkdaAaqVfWwCcVD11pBdkxlfJ0CwXEBb71XSUE+FIlOk Sf4N21wgA60TT4m4kbyOpM+ELvpB93YykfhWPruobT4bwdw94ffICM3LAbuEqFVtdHEh q92Lu+devoYhaLp2jfFA550M6s3Lv1Z+WK/y9Apx7u3RX6XhtK5cnh8UrKseOKAaXbRg 1WsA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXJjy6yN00VlE8kXwyctVyAK+4U96ACXDV9awDFZlW1WejGuiMa1P91RJbvaKtZDNKTJzjfZRS4Es20rw==@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Ywn5RAG26QCWfBQrdLwy4bExIwk0h/XidhGDSkg3FvAPV9tw2XV 1jw1ASY4qeWoW3IJ2HgLTpqR15Vp06QzrV9UQryckzXPNilsV4UvN4YHeRRm5PIpr/otXjWvKkl 5Cit6JtNs+MKgRK6vHRA6a8L0QlRLlF+0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEpr5mPdsW9kD51pzz/vlWiWOVE+0eQvbFb3hdPUeelbxBqBrTaU46MbM8ehpmxMgQtPHDRcYyeM6QoaIL6cEA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:34d1:b0:5be:f3ae:b9ce with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5c3dc7bea71mr1035126a12.27.1725610426845; Fri, 06 Sep 2024 01:13:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87seufqws2.fsf@gmx.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52f; envelope-from=paaguti@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323460 Archived-At: --00000000000083510d06216efce2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I've continued thinking about this and have come up with: Make sure this evaluation does not load any files, or call functions like @code{posn-at-point} or @code{window-in-direction}, which themselves evaluate the mode line, as doing so could cause infinite recursion. or Make sure evaluating @var{form} does not load any files, or call functions like @code{posn-at-point} or @code{window-in-direction}, which themselves evaluate the mode line, as doing so could cause infinite recursion. I personally would highlight this. Putting that in a separate paragraph may help or adding a bold *CAVEAT* before. My feeling is that being in the paragraph dilutes the importance of this kind of advices, not only here, but also in other places in the manuals. I know this can may take long, but IMHO this would improve the manuals a lot. Best, /PA On Wed, 4 Sept 2024 at 17:11, Stephen Berman wrote: > On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 15:55:29 +0200 Stephen Berman > wrote: > > > On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 15:25:20 +0300 Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > >>> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez > >>> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 09:02:18 +0200 > >>> > >>> >evaluation cannot load any files, nor calls functions like > >>> >@code{posn-at-point} or @code{window-in-direction}, which themselves > >>> >+evaluate the mode line, as doing so could cause infinite recursion. > >>> > >>> Shouldn't that be 'cannot load any files nor call functions'? > >> > >> No, because "calls" refers to 'evaluation", which is singular, not > >> plural. > > > > The clause beginning with "nor" is a complement of "can", so the verb > > must be a bare infinitive, i.e. "call" and not "to call", but also not > > "calls", since that's not an infinitive form. If you find "nor call > > functions" hard to parse, the more explicit "nor can it call functions" > > is an alternative. > > After seeing your new rewording, I see that my "more explicit" > alternative phrasing is not good in the full sentence, which I didn't > see when I responded (a correct alternative is "nor that it can > call...", which sound somewhat stilted, or simply (and better) "and > cannot call..."). (Your new rewording is fine, though I think "neither > loads any files nor calls functions like..." might be understood to > imply nothing else is excluded from evaluation, while with "does not > load any files or call functions like..." that implication seems > weaker.) > > Steve Berman > -- Fragen sind nicht da, um beantwortet zu werden, Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden Georg Kreisler Headaches with a Juju log: unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should run a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet --00000000000083510d06216efce2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I've continued thinking about this and have= come up with:

Make sure this
evaluation does not load any files,= or call functions like
@code{posn-at-point} or @code{window-in-directio= n}, which themselves
evaluate the mode line, as doing so could cause inf= inite recursion.

or

Make sure evaluating @var{form} does not= load any files, or call functions like
@code{posn-at-point} or @code{wi= ndow-in-direction}, which themselves
evaluate the mode line, as doing so= could cause infinite recursion.
=C2=A0
I personally would highlight = this. Putting that in a separate paragraph may help
or adding a bold *CA= VEAT* before. My feeling is that being in the paragraph
dilutes the imp= ortance of this kind of advices, not only here, but also in other
place= s in the manuals. I know this can may take long, but IMHO this would improv= e
the manuals a lot.

Best, /PA
=

= On Wed, 4 Sept 2024 at 17:11, Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 15:55:29 +0200 St= ephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 04 Sep 2024 15:25:20 +0300 Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>> From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez <paaguti@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2024 09:02:18 +0200
>>>
>>> >evaluation cannot load any files, nor calls functions like=
>>> >@code{posn-at-point} or @code{window-in-direction}, which = themselves
>>> >+evaluate the mode line, as doing so could cause infinite = recursion.
>>>
>>> Shouldn't that be 'cannot load any files nor call func= tions'?
>>
>> No, because "calls" refers to 'evaluation", whi= ch is singular, not
>> plural.
>
> The clause beginning with "nor" is a complement of "can= ", so the verb
> must be a bare infinitive, i.e. "call" and not "to call= ", but also not
> "calls", since that's not an infinitive form.=C2=A0 If y= ou find "nor call
> functions" hard to parse, the more explicit "nor can it call= functions"
> is an alternative.

After seeing your new rewording, I see that my "more explicit" alternative phrasing is not good in the full sentence, which I didn't see when I responded (a correct alternative is "nor that it can
call...", which sound somewhat stilted, or simply (and better) "a= nd
cannot call...").=C2=A0 (Your new rewording is fine, though I think &q= uot;neither
loads any files nor calls functions like..." might be understood to imply nothing else is excluded from evaluation, while with "does not load any files or call functions like..." that implication seems
weaker.)

Steve Berman


--
Fragen sind nicht da, um bea= ntwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden
= Georg Kreisler

Headaches with a Juju log:
unit-basic-16: 09:17:36 WARNING juju.worker.uniter.operation we should ru= n a leader-deposed hook here, but we can't yet

--00000000000083510d06216efce2--