From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Default custom file was: Re: Propose to add setup-wizard.el to ELPA Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2022 18:32:14 +0100 Message-ID: References: <740A136F-8710-4F4C-BFC1-A3DB418447F4@gmail.com> <87zgoc7u6k.fsf@gmail.com> <83iluzbqcr.fsf@gnu.org> <87r19nxx7x.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002880f505d4c50622" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33291"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Robert Pluim , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 04 18:34:26 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n4nhZ-0008Qf-Rv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 18:34:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59344 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4nhY-0007uO-OU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 12:34:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:59566) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4nfw-00064v-BP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 12:32:44 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::534] (port=39696 helo=mail-ed1-x534.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n4nfu-0003aK-C6; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 12:32:43 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x534.google.com with SMTP id f5so151339988edq.6; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 09:32:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5nA6WSCCaEAPrzpw+WOSwlMBwNURpbcXQSZeD20KNd0=; b=g6IlR3z9ZHsEqFoCCDS7V/GRr1sbxLbUL62h19Go3DZclnlJIlVPBfxrR6fahpmN2J UbzSo/H1eXU9Fh7UJPUByXI5CsCs19qf2K5xNj+YQIPoWqN3o6NpJgNuOa2WK/RW4nwV gRcPEW8ecXO2wL9EdoCKy9BI3D8lgVMmEGjoipTXfn5FEu26IIjau9+E6HXyzMTozYIj gRRH/XF+xvPkG3Ve+jPWbLe8whJDuzV8G6ZFl05cD8ONwtQNQqxEH9z9IwG/uQqsna43 seGYg4UrP4ZcNoeavB4VFWo4O5nBOfd8oS3XyC+O/dZNKh1got13ryt1k6DsVsZ1kT0P a3mQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5nA6WSCCaEAPrzpw+WOSwlMBwNURpbcXQSZeD20KNd0=; b=uYecdnPhhLDGOOIKm/RmLu7OJH/VMFOJLgizixtSr22zgQYhZQm08Zbsbm1vn7zh5j eU3Qz+h8hHA5D5JncZ3Oh/+quBq97lTRVy6HD4z/g0szL6vitFpWoTulsT3dlXvFbAKQ Q6YEnehFfwhtsyXsUk3k9oxkx5JX4vCcSTXqikkLG/aZsoV/IvwLkbkpJOw/++pX+7iI Fe1M+hVFdhMSb2KpDS0/0d2T3emddqLviT8ZJg18V11VcCxsB2DGotG+FDtAt+6rg0rf 7xnIXQS307zHIPRahfKzYnRnXV2m/GULILdxDA5VaG0y4pQLYDFMCzJyrrxslfArHarg qMaA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532lEpOZS4LDf5ju0sbRBUb5+FWBeeRJK8AiVuYuulOzt/e4NmXp OnQQAyJ/8S8iWfyj/7v9oSUXQEw5RlCGpBIf+Os= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyOjGVoqxSFnjkAfSaY3XehtbbDO7c/R6ISn5RZNo5TawKmQVHAc61S4O26imgxQKtFQI9nOG5CSnUfe/LUJiw= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:f02:: with SMTP id z2mr30251793eji.499.1641317560515; Tue, 04 Jan 2022 09:32:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::534 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::534; envelope-from=paaguti@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x534.google.com X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284181 Archived-At: --0000000000002880f505d4c50622 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > The *only* case I can see where we could set custom-file to eg > ~/.emacs.d/custom.el (and maybe load it automatically) is for people > with no customizations. Hmmm??? I don't get it... really and humbly sorry. My initial take is that things will be clearer if you split things between init.el and custom.el. Customising and initialising are two different although related things. I think it is less dangerous to delete the custom.el file and leave the init.el file untouched than to edit the .emacs or the init.el file. More so for novice users. /PA On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 at 18:14, Drew Adams wrote: > > Drew> If you want to continue to use only the init > > Drew> file, just set `custom-file' to that file. > > Drew> Or set a variable (TBD) to tell Emacs to never > > Drew> load `custom-file' automatically. > > > > Drew> If you want to change, to use only `custom-file' > > Drew> for `custom*' stuff, move such settings from > > Drew> your init file to your `custom-file'. (And yes, > > Drew> we should have a command that does that moving.) > > > > Making people who wish to retain long-standing behaviour set a > > variable or edit a config file for something as fundamental as loading > > and saving customizations is not something I would want, ever. The > > *only* case I can see where we could set custom-file to eg > > ~/.emacs.d/custom.el (and maybe load it automatically) is for people > > with no customizations. > > It sounds like what you're really saying is that you > don't want Emacs to use `custom-file' for Custom > stuff, by default. > > The advantages, for the great majority of users, and > in particular for new users, vastly outweigh the > inconvenience to anyone who _really_ wants to keep > things as they are for themselves. > > They/you need only (setq custom-file THE-INIT-FILE). > > They could always have done that. And it's always > been essentially a no-op in similar situations - > see _function_ `custom-file', which is used by > `custom-save-all'. > > -- Fragen sind nicht da um beantwortet zu werden, Fragen sind da um gestellt zu werden Georg Kreisler --0000000000002880f505d4c50622 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> The *only* = case I can see where we could set custom-file to eg
> ~/.emacs.d/custom.el (and maybe load it automatically) is for people > with no customizations.

Hmmm??? I don&= #39;t get it... really and humbly sorry. My initial take is that things wil= l be clearer if you
split things = between init.el and custom.el.
Customising and initialising are two different although related things. =
I think it is less dangerous= to delete the custom.el file and leave the init.el file untouched than to = edit
the .emacs or the init.el fi= le. More so for novice users.

/PA

On Tue, 4 Jan= 2022 at 18:14, Drew Adams <dre= w.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> If you want to continue = to use only the init
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> file, just set `custom-file' to that f= ile.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> Or set a variable (TBD) to tell Emacs to n= ever
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> load `custom-file' automatically.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> If you want to change, to use only `custom= -file'
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> for `custom*' stuff, move such setting= s from
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> your init file to your `custom-file'.= =C2=A0 (And yes,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Drew> we should have a command that does that mo= ving.)
>
> Making people who wish to retain long-standing behaviour set a
> variable or edit a config file for something as fundamental as loading=
> and saving customizations is not something I would want, ever. The
> *only* case I can see where we could set custom-file to eg
> ~/.emacs.d/custom.el (and maybe load it automatically) is for people > with no customizations.

It sounds like what you're really saying is that you
don't want Emacs to use `custom-file' for Custom
stuff, by default.

The advantages, for the great majority of users, and
in particular for new users, vastly outweigh the
inconvenience to anyone who _really_ wants to keep
things as they are for themselves.

They/you need only (setq custom-file THE-INIT-FILE).

They could always have done that.=C2=A0 And it's always
been essentially a no-op in similar situations -
see _function_ `custom-file', which is used by
`custom-save-all'.



--
Fragen sin= d nicht da um beantwortet zu werden,
Fragen sind da um gestellt zu= werden
Georg Kreisler
--0000000000002880f505d4c50622--