From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Clojure mode Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:51:12 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <4874df51-9652-f9fd-0576-9dd6a4cba31a@gutov.dev> <3d5ef276-ce6b-9ff0-0c60-1da6b887b365@gutov.dev> <1070e416-2a13-49e0-90d4-fbc526cd461c@app.fastmail.com> <83ttskia84.fsf@gnu.org> <97c96b72-ebba-4853-98d2-86e3ba8bbc05@app.fastmail.com> <83sf84i9ix.fsf@gnu.org> <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006c1d8c060401dbf8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15454"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: bozhidar@batsov.dev, dmitry@gutov.dev, rms@gnu.org, danny@dfreeman.email, emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 28 22:52:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qajDf-0003fC-A6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 22:52:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qajCq-00007C-ET; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:51:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qajCp-0008WE-5Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:51:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yw1-x112c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::112c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qajCm-0006lk-Re; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 16:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yw1-x112c.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-58d40c2debeso43046417b3.2; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 13:51:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693255883; x=1693860683; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+EMy+WDCstx4nNHUyHi+H0IdEr/hr6XKRhinr8X0xKo=; b=WPXvx0w3DJI+illVvI8YNEiyZ5dpoe29xBXCvQLcevHEjD0BhP83FuT3sq8mnTtY3n BkS3RzGFk5/H8CGv2iy7rtQMZTcq8KmuN9qvU6TfMaGBB42rdsKTurAzS0l/vNEcaOYE 0ZG+LOzvstFYyaXqiUBbqYqoBySgsjJxq6j7qBiCK1XTBmn162G5vT9cEmGwMbeMnTpH BLXvUArKwXreYcy3rIBETw0xO2X2ihPbypd4yLn2UeQ2cEnC9pa7/UHR4B/KYRXPjkvv m/t/b5ZOP7cbjVIC8TFQnE5lsn4A+L8Aw8aHn61quFZrWXJMkLSwdv8+47b2JR1mm0+n JGFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693255883; x=1693860683; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=+EMy+WDCstx4nNHUyHi+H0IdEr/hr6XKRhinr8X0xKo=; b=bsouA7BenXwxuXl+CsebSfI+FTNRmEFycF1TpYUv+/qjGypmVXKDcZzifM+SJv1ZDt 8xQk3/6MxuXTbVN2wb83DVFcmYuCYNvdoFAXDMcuzT5p/EY1/MgrGwYgA40lKh32jQfC PEx6nYw5ZIvoOBDv136gYxuaoBOu2QBbQqaxSi6xP0eV9qhlH7z7Zp8pEuO2vNTRM5kH +Fye1rA1YGevT2lakhpJTUw7XUxdIp5sMiN8AH4dV1WE5+iANfb0soMLiT9+nwStDv9S 3mK3Dx4lO4GD8CbmigsfaNXLc6cAY+xcH2fTfg+AD/c+ztRJZ0EQHFk6UMGSmekP7icH 0cug== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy+JPusHDnIay1aWafrQAqDN1UuT+rZ2wGhc47EVmbUKifw9EdE KPYR9wxWJWPLkV6cJ3fTwSdKV5Sugl6OH/Uxu3jCK1ubE9g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHemGy1+0jP+0PAtfdze40PRf3u6+xcoq8p3lRGaq0AC6uM7elvJHTeHCQHVSsIWVp/2oCu9whe2zUczKugVjs= X-Received: by 2002:a0d:c243:0:b0:589:f883:c8f1 with SMTP id e64-20020a0dc243000000b00589f883c8f1mr28548160ywd.37.1693255883036; Mon, 28 Aug 2023 13:51:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <837cpfhzdm.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::112c; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yw1-x112c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309453 Archived-At: --0000000000006c1d8c060401dbf8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You will have to present a more detailed proposal, because up front I > don't see how will this work. > Entirely fair; I was presenting a pretty rough sketch. Let me try to make it more concrete. What I had in mind was something akin to autoload that, rather than providing _any_ clojure mode (in this specific example), instead provides the user with a buffer conveying that Clojure support in emacs is available, but is not currently bundled directly, and offers the user a short description of each of the two packages clojure-mode and clojure-ts-mode, along with buttons to install and activate each package. Thus, if a new user started a freshly downloaded emacs, they would find some guidance (rather than, for example, "[No match]" from M-x or fundamental-mode from opening test.clj), and we could provide some short info backed by the full package description in cases where there was no current always-recommend. The message/guidance could be conceptually similar to the disable-command machinery. I had autoload in mind based on the idea that this guidance code would be supplanted by an actually installed package (and, I think, ideally restored if the package was later removed). In other words, I'm suggesting adding an optional dispatching step for the paths most likely to invoke a not-directly-supported-in-core language. Perhaps *eventually* something similar could be done for suggesting say, c-sharp-ts-mode and cc-mode for a fresh emacs and "C-x C-f test.cs". I imagine that there are refinements that could be useful for someone who wanted to try assembling a small-core emacs, but I'd be surprised if there weren't important lessons to learn before that point. I hope this description is clearer; please let me know if I missed or forgot anything important. ~Chad --0000000000006c1d8c060401dbf8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF= PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> w= rote:
You will h= ave to present a more detailed proposal, because up front I
don't see how will this work.=C2=A0

Entirely fair; I was presenting a pretty rough sketch. Let me try to make = it more concrete.

What I had in mind was something= akin to autoload that, rather than providing _any_ clojure mode (in this s= pecific example), instead provides the user with a buffer conveying that Cl= ojure support in emacs is available, but is not currently bundled directly,= and offers the user a short description of each of the two packages clojur= e-mode and clojure-ts-mode, along with buttons to install and activate each= package.=C2=A0

Thus, if a new user started a fres= hly downloaded emacs, they would find some guidance (rather than, for examp= le, "[No match]" from M-x or fundamental-mode from opening test.c= lj), and we could provide some short info backed by the full package descri= ption in cases where there was no current always-recommend. The message/gui= dance could be conceptually similar to the disable-command machinery.
=

I had autoload in mind based on the idea that this guid= ance code would be supplanted by an actually installed package (and, I thin= k, ideally restored if the package was later removed). In other words, I= 9;m suggesting adding an optional dispatching step for the paths most likel= y to invoke a not-directly-supported-in-core language.

=
Perhaps *eventually* something similar could be done for suggesting sa= y, c-sharp-ts-mode and cc-mode for a fresh emacs and "C-x C-f test.cs&= quot;. I imagine that there are refinements that could be useful for someon= e who wanted to try assembling a small-core emacs, but I'd be surprised= if there weren't important lessons to learn before that point.

I hope this description is clearer; please let me know if= I missed or forgot anything important.

~Chad
=C2=A0
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