From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My perspective as a mid-level user on pros/cons of different editors Date: Fri, 22 May 2020 18:25:32 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000edbdb705a6469ffd" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="50218"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emacs developers To: ndame Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 23 03:26:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jcIve-000Cwe-Qf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 23 May 2020 03:26:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46148 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcIvd-0002TK-Td for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 21:26:21 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39808) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcIv4-0001uC-TY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 21:25:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb32.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32]:46041) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jcIv4-0002Q6-2N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 May 2020 21:25:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb32.google.com with SMTP id j8so1217042ybj.12 for ; Fri, 22 May 2020 18:25:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=qHZ2mQzx2u+I70PBdSfpdF3Ehv26PdNSfeaxys78kKc=; b=WQgIPzTlciGrzvgsMHz3XHqlSSyN9ZpUYYbO2kV5pQqCvnvm3Lh0bxcMfd5dbYBto+ Jf0ZDoIWK4m+p1/wdzoChD3LqiQ+4b4MJvnsYgJfsoQnMgyFVZqSLsQ4A2cHbY6/VtCm f+lcfVl2P0YGFn8+iEBMalLus0Y645BxDDl9lwbQsLQVZRq470cAcT5k65RE32TceI4p gNzJ7Pe717T9loV+ljg9MgA0JhYyffYgGeabDlH/+f/QHsxUMZ/E2IatGVm69MmF6E0C kiOB+cLD71UKuIl8OOn/+sVJe4cHqdwlGoGx1G0kMucmhlterkzE4GTA9v+uWt0DoHjA J5sw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qHZ2mQzx2u+I70PBdSfpdF3Ehv26PdNSfeaxys78kKc=; b=sCT70yEXScmzeZQIiCNpilKOStaoZfX/TT/b64q+OaOTF1kIF2obz46+NDOq8te5x6 XhrFyx/XHo1CP3KeJfB3uNN7s+uKlCc7Q0QLYBg/XhaxMndm98Ijg7+n1xxlHEqoGhzZ 6Sx+6M5Eyw6rYxizfjaBuhr3BHpyM7nLTWAisL/qbE8dvAkRbFwCXcZsYzoLfJHfL6og 2iwpDFK5r5ljSTgt7TcNQVkHa2GoULB87UD6AaWBmOU/PC0Ac9onOktO2CpNJ73Y6GuR n96nZ5xtUyRgefobFOvpv1ZDBGNap3dy7NoONqOE+GUHK9H4aA84X+C7/JredDJbYEg4 AQWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533BOejYCpB5PmfwVQhZ/UQ3LSXXowpQ/zi/zXcGfRhlNiYp4kYU tYUpRYvbLtQOsPA8o2yzZuEpqMzO+Pcp4Obu0mY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx9JK5gbqp7UNYnlWCWXmybSdAk56SaCTZT/sU00AfqFl6FBv/S30cC3dE2q/cdE6GXRiF/pvIOJWh+MB2B4Nw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:ab4b:: with SMTP id u69mr30794900ybi.457.1590197144631; Fri, 22 May 2020 18:25:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b32; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb32.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:251258 Archived-At: --000000000000edbdb705a6469ffd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" In addition to the philosophical reason, there's an effort-based reason, and then there's the fact that it's a nasty combinatorics problem. Pick a version of emacs (26 vs. 27 matters, although the setups probably don't differ too much), then: for each language you want to support, (many) for each OS/version, (at least 3) for each method of installing non-elisp packages, (varies from "a couple" to "half-dozen plus") you *still* often have choices to make. This is probably also why the typical "external tool install method" is a documentation line that says something like "install ripgrep" or "make sure python-shell-interpreter and py-shell-name are both set to python 3". On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:55 AM ndame wrote: > > As a user, I really want to be able to jump to > > eclaration/implementation/find references/get completion to work etc. I > > ouldn't care as slightest how it is implemented as long as it worked > > ell. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I know all the minutiae details on > > ow it works in my copy of Emacs since I had to install each and every > > acakge and configure them all together to get that working for me. > > hich indeed took quite some time untill I learned what I need, how to > > onfigure it and finally how to use it. > > As you did it already how hard would it be you think to create a package > which does this automatically? > > I'm wondering why somebody hasn't made this already. > > I don't mean a package in ELPA, but rather in MELPA, so the package is not > restricted from downloading and installing a server, etc it could do > anything what is needed to set up the configuration. Why aren't there > packages for various languages which set up the completion/go to definition > stuff automatically? Is there a technical problem? > --000000000000edbdb705a6469ffd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In addition to the philosophical reason, there's an ef= fort-based reason, and then there's the fact that it's a nasty comb= inatorics problem. Pick a version of emacs (26 vs. 27 matters, although the= setups probably don't differ too much), then:
=C2=A0for each langu= age you want to support, (many)
=C2=A0for each OS/version, (at le= ast 3)
=C2=A0for each method of installing non-elisp packages, (v= aries from "a couple" to "half-dozen plus")
y= ou *still* often have choices to make. This is probably also why the typica= l "external tool install method" is a documentation line that say= s something like "install ripgrep" or "make sure python-shel= l-interpreter and py-shell-name are both set to python 3".

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:55 AM ndame <ndame@protonmail.com> wrote:
> As a user, I really want = to be able to jump to
> eclaration/implementation/find ref= erences/get completion to work etc. I
> ouldn't care a= s slightest how it is implemented as long as it worked
> e= ll. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I know all the minutiae details on
> ow it works in my copy of Emacs since I had to install each a= nd every
> acakge and configure them all together to get t= hat working for me.
> hich indeed took quite some time unt= ill I learned what I need, how to
> onfigure it and finall= y how to use it.

As you did it already how har= d would it be you think to create a package which does this automatically?<= br>

I'm wondering why somebody hasn't made= this already.

I don't mean a package in = ELPA, but rather in MELPA, so the package is not restricted from downloadin= g and installing a server, etc it could do anything what is needed to set u= p the configuration. Why aren't there packages for various languages wh= ich set up the completion/go to definition stuff automatically?=C2=A0Is the= re a technical problem?
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