From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs design and architecture Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:22:03 -0400 Message-ID: References: <83r0n4rj78.fsf@gnu.org> <83cyynpmvd.fsf@gnu.org> <838r99mh40.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6nwlmt4.fsf@gnu.org> <456d12ac-ecf4-3de4-56bb-a2440580777f@gutov.dev> <83a5tokmsv.fsf@gnu.org> <83sf7fki5g.fsf@gnu.org> <43d642a8-d1b4-05ed-41e0-6e52d22df2d4@gutov.dev> <83edizjn0v.fsf@gnu.org> <0518f65b-1dd1-6923-8497-da4d3aeac631@gutov.dev> <1cff05f8-df80-b776-5175-dd27a6e59799@gutov.dev> <87wmwqiax9.fsf@whxvd.name> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a474050605ba5666" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36570"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Sebastian Miele , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 19 20:22:55 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qifN7-0009HZ-HI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 20:22:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qifMc-00023c-0L; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:22:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qifMZ-00023A-O5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:22:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qifMY-0006dR-4D; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 14:22:19 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-d8181087dc9so5444023276.3; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:22:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695147736; x=1695752536; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=aSRqFX3nGQjh4BJfAL2j2dVLw9/cP0hrCgj6NniKiRw=; b=cjCvkptnFZZUXAKP04Q3fLRN/DWBZQSobK83Km73x8pxgeRPVVgz8LYATQq9MTrqj3 feLpevj2SoSXW2/CLfdNL+qbf8MLl0viScIaZSLQuo7DobeoG+kPXSoHO/eHITK7TX17 N8zjSnn5TNe7EGfbRvhq2aYpAF6ASi6kryKpHpmXoxzN4+Ru3rNvpvSjJMnvHtXvNUtZ c3BYDolPRLVCJGrYl09AIsyfZsAUT0ffMgLXhjCRsgz7XH9tp5tFUBuw5T9JdU93yZrM nDbcFaFBsR4BeX8ewqvEGHo0RMyP0XJO3JEj9bjMLXKKwHtnH/7FJqpbrmlqD6d7qnoT 6CbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695147736; x=1695752536; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=aSRqFX3nGQjh4BJfAL2j2dVLw9/cP0hrCgj6NniKiRw=; b=gBxdgzPKTDKgdXwL+OFNNZsXwUInMMDSdVGa8ufTTdzLkd9YJdIylhcj7NdZIay7TM XG5CGubyjmE0Z3Hl8gfKiLTUa0GpSCBOjZioVmzmA4eYlQuRKodxsWlHZqCWkdPmq/QQ yPJMnZ8/6Suy5mhQt4kTLnbFpL48v0BxPDCSUDC81NAwd59beB4aEKca27kPoKaX2iPZ YKEe3ZPBg+UZqd8dAkWweGFBv+RpknXl2/Zjo+6USOFAvubM7tYWOgjabTco184xUE4l 7avzDs3BZ2MfEdTlcv3JlOUdEzQq8+jc8e7i9mmvruWXvd9OPLRb+AwsSG8I2HznFx5c jFFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzUncDL7wN+EPcrPEmf9j5wmSuAco0Qx7ysBRvnfX1Zg8QCjmb2 hRedpXyB9zevw1Zj73hB4SLoTxfiHZZO09J9qz1SqSGf X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFpfGbP8xb80MwMpjDTmsdBrSdcH9KIvM0xsoCzz8EYoh6v6byZHx8pEh9d9Vux5oknBSjbZDhowWYwHv5VR4M= X-Received: by 2002:a25:37d4:0:b0:d82:9342:8612 with SMTP id e203-20020a2537d4000000b00d8293428612mr440153yba.12.1695147735936; Tue, 19 Sep 2023 11:22:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb36.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310791 Archived-At: --000000000000a474050605ba5666 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 7:03=E2=80=AFPM Richard Stallman wrot= e: > [...] > I think that some of Emacs's web browsing facilities include > Javascript execution. (Is this correct?) > None of the web browsers I've seen for emacs support javascript execution, and it would be a difficult thing to add. At a guess, the easiest method would involve emacs running (or communicating with) an existing browser and interrogating the results, very roughly along the same lines as CIDER or SLIME bring clojure or common lisp execution into emacs. Note that it's _much_ easier to bring simple javascript execution into emacs -- there are cli/repl-style javascript interpreters available for such tasks. They don't have access to the other core parts of the _web browsing_ facilities, in particular the DOM (Document Object Model) that contains the structure of the material to be browsed, nor the CSS facilities for styling same. In short: the path the "modern web" took to get to interactive "rich" documents on the web ended up very strongly tied to a particular underlying representation of the content, including how it is loaded, displayed, styled, and updated. Those pieces are far more theoretically distinct than actually composable. ~Chad --000000000000a474050605ba5666 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Sep 17, 2023 at 7:03=E2=80=AFPM R= ichard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrot= e:
[...]
I think that some of Emacs's web browsing facilities include
Javascript execution.=C2=A0 (Is this correct?)=C2=A0
<= br>
None of the web browsers I've seen for emacs support java= script execution, and it would be a difficult thing to add. At a guess, the= easiest method would involve emacs running (or communicating with) an exis= ting browser and interrogating the results, very roughly along the same lin= es as CIDER or SLIME bring clojure or common lisp execution into emacs.

Note that it's _much_ easier to bring simple java= script execution into emacs -- there are cli/repl-style javascript interpre= ters available for such tasks. They don't have access to the other core= parts of the _web browsing_ facilities, in particular the DOM (Document Ob= ject Model) that contains the structure of the material to be browsed, nor = the CSS facilities for styling same.

In short:= the path the "modern web" took to get to interactive "rich&= quot; documents on the web ended up very strongly tied to a particular unde= rlying representation of the content, including how it is loaded, displayed= , styled, and updated. Those pieces are far more theoretically distinct tha= n actually composable.

~Chad
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