From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey: Toolbars Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:13:54 -0800 Message-ID: References: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009518cb05b69c316e" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20287"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: EMACS development team Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 16 23:16:25 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kpf5t-0005B1-3b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 23:16:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59404 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpf5n-0005ba-NE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:16:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60474) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpf3i-0004EX-86 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:14:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]:45988) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kpf3f-0006Il-U1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 17:14:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id k78so23917231ybf.12 for ; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:14:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=F2HTptI+StadLqTJ7CakL46fuXOrLQgKUzDzvXqvtRQ=; b=mL9KaFD8lr6onUXeragcDrEa9w4TGTrjy18ZOt2Q4aJgUBVpiVoN8DfB6m8FtLEGDH GHYsmgyAd1NJ0+ULdS+kUEqIjuI4kyymiI2ME2AiElGd4g4+WK7l1cX/YooHjBbAXHAs OMpWKtzyQ+OQh1YkiV4Q8dYWGftx5CduzvmkcWWqwTwRxkr8xT1mNvGep8L7hB2XbmmO 6qgpDpeF/t1dluZChYangiR4hecyxB40RO263Yd81eB3LXjcIiMyMc2IfD3c/nRoiwZr pJDWMWvpaJJKerWb68iysyJBh8pPQHGWRMLQ1RlHpqNk+vCx7AhE7lZD4Cfj3Bp7L89e 4URA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=F2HTptI+StadLqTJ7CakL46fuXOrLQgKUzDzvXqvtRQ=; b=SlQqaoqY90LJ8DCcgCErafneu99iiHgC5yG/ywMGDfj96+jRox4hYxjU6YZjVNYGuO TOPk2Bj4NQushZ8g/jG+i6hzHnF2rqLCjltGrSrJtjxMHFgVpq5Cn19H8g1n4bfSsZbT Htq7NvOZv954qjnOEsCbg0RVvrZmFGtsBt5nLeQbrivtDOfnVbB5J8/NKuWUE+XOJOd6 NoIC0PqWMzRzMrw5LKUVaPsLnSLADAII99uXX6vmbCHHsuGdmujoC2IPcsX2FUGhcTbe JUicpDG95CD+v9ZAidXJwyZa/g8cBiExZmGdrSBBC58NHC/rvKJ6r74f/7VtL7OSahc4 +T1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533kkBFNlEdhNSB/JiORpXGzFsHrJaSLDTBO2WDOww/L1128Y+D2 xhYr30qfW0pOSalcXzA6B2054ZIuu9s1CYx5OPJiEQHuvvE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIYjP6O/OcJJlOGLiv6uFQVc6zUb+VFg84NuTPCX8jqh7hC4S+kR1Fim/7tmSF3vr2uADW1SMvame664mrVcc= X-Received: by 2002:a25:284:: with SMTP id 126mr51603891ybc.22.1608156846560; Wed, 16 Dec 2020 14:14:06 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87o8iv3ac3.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261073 Archived-At: --0000000000009518cb05b69c316e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" One interesting bit of data from Dick Mao's survey analysis centers around keybinding sets. Very roughly, about 2/3 of respondents use the default keybindings, and the other third use evil-mode. The correlation that seems relevant: The median evil-modalist is *seven emacs-years younger* than the median > traditionalist. Reading the tea-leaves a bit, I think this suggests that at least many of these younger users are NOT seeing the toolbar normally, since the vast majority of the ways that a newer user is likely to get to vi-style bindings (via packaged setups like spacemacs or doom, by following config-file advice from the community, etc.) also disable the toolbar. This supports the (widespread?) theory that for most new users, the toolbar is present only at the very earliest moments of using emacs, if that. ~Chad --0000000000009518cb05b69c316e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One interesting bit of data from Dick Mao's survey ana= lysis centers around keybinding sets. Very roughly, about 2/3 of respondent= s use the default keybindings, and the other third use evil-mode. The corre= lation that seems relevant:

The median evil-modalist is=C2=A0seven emacs-years youn= ger=C2= =A0than the median traditionalist.

R= eading the tea-leaves a bit, I think this suggests that at least many of th= ese younger users are NOT seeing the toolbar normally, since the vast major= ity of the ways that a newer user is likely to get to vi-style bindings (vi= a packaged setups like spacemacs or doom, by following config-file advice f= rom the community, etc.)=C2=A0 also disable the toolbar.

This supports the (widespread?) theory that for most new users, the = toolbar is present only at the very earliest moments of using emacs, if tha= t.

~Chad
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