From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why mouse-1/2/3 ? Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:04:57 -0700 Message-ID: References: <20200427113141.GH30150@tuxteam.de> <00cf3d7c-c742-4e5a-a3ce-6cb36f199074@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c40c5f05a44a648c" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="67670"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= , EMACS development team To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Apr 27 21:05:57 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jT94l-000HPg-Mr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:05:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59074 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT94k-00078r-OW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:05:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41300) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT943-0006Pp-GC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:05:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT942-0006r8-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:05:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]:46658) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jT942-0006qf-DC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:05:10 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id b17so10026704ybq.13 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:05:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=CgzbQog4mp6oAVriSI74TJqkWKkIQvAorsBnhkOntOQ=; b=P1NF0U7iHvdYzE8AHaKBUbXk/R7Vx9Gn8YDdsuCYWsTv9SPMD39qFkGz8LBFsLY7mz dLRzJlBPlf2gYGX0e1wHHLKIdudrFS4Kl+gXUTlhrkDOdUYS2hCIdhSu/0SWODnGekNR AiESZe1TLlD0vAv/E0tAZPo358RLBPA4vL0wnIKXg2WulVo+3macYQANT47hBnRkV3w8 sMLnmsAln10Uf9Z+mpmjzAwjZFx5KvJ/kG3NlxQ78UuyT+Vai7v1qHul0KnflsZQOWwu 3ZgLuqAAE8vGHYukpRRt16c9n3hYSkKc5I1baMDrbGnqfNw75wdoWPbMJ1y5sQYndFL1 9nTw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=CgzbQog4mp6oAVriSI74TJqkWKkIQvAorsBnhkOntOQ=; b=Yes4YxttxGLe4zlvDjRbzcoeJBc7HkSEMcbOctGNsaaGSJkdwjb65B2c0RwKYJtnyK B/1ue0Wo+ulUeLOzUgVi45NJruTFUEoTkx54LO0UTi0j1+RSrqELhWH+2Ubz1XaFHRZJ KbzEyovY2S26BZ/9ulU0StlWarigYDfOxI/VfRd1FAUJwOkzyeE/juiQKmMQynEV0Duf grdMVUL6ePHEGWrANmRSxlydug65I4UVdb0VtZqrMAED5P2G5IWagsKvOUEw04t05oyv 4xHuUjY9r0hIZ2Nph+rbRcz5LjUbodjrEjxKgwQLBBjiLy8jJnlOVEWMo00ZvHaDfhGX 4LkQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZBneZd76XhdwHAQ1BQlCOn3CxKo+QdcNYvOavz+Q+q0b97K6oG Oh/AMl6pHravK/M3h+cg8dv5PVpZVK7StfLe5kA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIPV7qyBOR52f3ZLeeI2bEe33YSTgChxFKNE5WK6uSjvoPeCHtSBx4jDJ7l6R0t2TZD0jZsFHlJNU0Mh86P98I= X-Received: by 2002:a25:e008:: with SMTP id x8mr8118589ybg.295.1588014308657; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:05:08 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <00cf3d7c-c742-4e5a-a3ce-6cb36f199074@default> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d; envelope-from=yandros@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247953 Archived-At: --000000000000c40c5f05a44a648c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" If we're going to talk about common terminology, then it seems wrong to ignore the fact that the majority of UI guidance talks about "click" and "alt-click" far more than they talk about numbered mouse buttons. This has been true since macs went to 1 button, since laptops with 3 buttons became very hard to find, since mice with 5-12+ (yes, really) buttons because available in every mainstream computer store, and since laptops with 2 buttons became virtually impossible to find -- to name just a few major inflection points. At this point, the most common interface device has 0.5 buttons -- the "tap/click/etc" action of trackpads. Mice (and their related desktop bretheren) have bifurcated between 2 buttons plus a sometimes-clickable scroll wheel (ubiquitous in lower-cost setups) and devices with many physical "buttons" (typically, 2 "main" buttons, a clickable wheel, and at least 2 other buttons). If this doesn't match your intuition, I invite you to do an internet search for "computer mouse" and then for "gaming mouse". This change to "click" is not an accident: naming the concept after the action rather than the tool has been recommended practice from UI/CHI researchers since at least the early 90's. UIs generally can't count on 3+ buttons, and most users don't internalize that many simultaneous modes anyway, so "click" and "alt-click" are defacto standards. Even now, the "alt click" is losing its hold, since touch-based interfaces are the baseline for many users' experince, and alt-tap is cumbersome for most of those. To put this in more concrete terms: the last 3 devices I've used as my daily driver, covering 15+ years and a solid 5-digit hours of computer use have been incapable of directly producing a "middle mouse click", even with modifier-chording tricks that belie the term "emacs pinky". The same is true of nearly all of my peers and coworkers over that period, including programmers, prose writers, and "creatives". ~Chad --000000000000c40c5f05a44a648c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If we're going=C2=A0to talk about common terminology, = then it seems wrong to ignore the fact that the majority of UI guidance tal= ks about "click" and "alt-click" far more than they tal= k about numbered mouse buttons. This has been true since macs went to 1 but= ton, since laptops with 3 buttons became very hard to find, since mice with= 5-12+ (yes, really) buttons because available in every mainstream computer= store, and since laptops with 2 buttons became virtually impossible to fin= d -- to name just a few major inflection points. At this point, the most co= mmon interface device has 0.5 buttons -- the "tap/click/etc" acti= on of trackpads. Mice (and their related desktop bretheren) have bifurcated= between 2 buttons plus a sometimes-clickable scroll wheel=C2=A0(ubiquitous= in lower-cost setups) and devices with many physical "buttons" (= typically, 2 "main" buttons, a clickable wheel, and at least 2 ot= her buttons). If this doesn't match your intuition, I invite you to do = an internet search for "computer mouse" and then for "gaming= mouse".

This change to "click" is not an= accident: naming the concept after the action rather than the tool has bee= n recommended practice from UI/CHI researchers since at least the early 90&= #39;s. UIs generally can't count on 3+ buttons, and most users don'= t internalize that many simultaneous modes anyway, so "click" and= "alt-click" are defacto standards. Even now, the "alt click= " is losing its hold, since touch-based interfaces are the baseline fo= r many users' experince, and alt-tap is cumbersome for most of those.= =C2=A0

To put this in more concrete terms: the las= t 3 devices I've used as my daily driver, covering 15+ years and a soli= d 5-digit hours of computer use have been incapable of directly producing a= "middle mouse click", even with modifier-chording tricks that be= lie the term "emacs pinky". The same is true of nearly all of my = peers and coworkers over that period, including programmers, prose writers,= and "creatives".

~Chad

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