bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Justine Alexandra Roberts Tunney]

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Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to have
access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to date
from the development that's been done on GitHub. What steps do I need to
take to accomplish this? My username on savannah is "jart". If you need
evidence that I'm the maintainer of this package, please see the following
URL:

https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/commits/master

Thanks so much,

Justine Tunney

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Reuben Thomas]

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On 14 April 2013 14:55, Justine Alexandra Roberts Tunney
<jtunney@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to
> have access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to
> date from the development that's been done on GitHub. What steps do I need
> to take to accomplish this? My username on savannah is "jart". If you need
> evidence that I'm the maintainer of this package, please see the following
> URL:
>
> https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/commits/master
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> Justine Tunney
>

Just to add some context: this is effectively a follow-up to bug #11535 by
a new maintainer.

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Monnier]

> Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to have
> access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to date
> from the development that's been done on GitHub.

Thanks.  [ I really wish people could just use `elpa' as the main
repository so we don't have to constantly deal with such synchronization.  ]

> What steps do I need to take to accomplish this?

I already sent you the forms to get your copyright paperwork done.
Note that any other new contributor (since the last sync) will also need
to sign that paperwork.

Once this is done, I can give you write access to the `elpa' branch
(which you can update via "bzr merge" if you have the bzr-git plugin
installed, tho you'll need to merge from a local branch, because of
some apparent bzr-git bug).


        Stefan

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Reuben Thomas]

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On 15 April 2013 01:56, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to
> have
> > access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to
> date
> > from the development that's been done on GitHub.
>
> Thanks.  [ I really wish people could just use `elpa' as the main
> repository so we don't have to constantly deal with such synchronization.
>  ]
>

You installed the sources originally and they've not been updated since; is
there anything to be done?

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Justine Alexandra Roberts Tunney]

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Looking into things, it seems like the process for getting this approved
with my employer is onerous. I'm currently really busy at work so it might
be another few weeks before I can submit everything.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> wrote:

> On 15 April 2013 01:56, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>> > Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to
>> have
>> > access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to
>> date
>> > from the development that's been done on GitHub.
>>
>> Thanks.  [ I really wish people could just use `elpa' as the main
>> repository so we don't have to constantly deal with such synchronization.
>>  ]
>>
>
> You installed the sources originally and they've not been updated since;
> is there anything to be done?
>
> --
> http://rrt.sc3d.org
>

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Monnier]

> You installed the sources originally and they've not been updated since;

The sources I installed weren't 100% identical, IIRC (some adjustments
in the copyright headers, probably).  So that needs to be synchronized.

> is there anything to be done?

The problem is not just to merge the changes made on both sides, but to
keep the GNU ELPA package uptodate.  If the development takes place in
`elpa', then it comes for free.


        Stefan

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Reuben Thomas]

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On 15 April 2013 14:53, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:

> > You installed the sources originally and they've not been updated since;
>
> The sources I installed weren't 100% identical, IIRC (some adjustments
> in the copyright headers, probably).  So that needs to be synchronized.
>
> > is there anything to be done?
>
> The problem is not just to merge the changes made on both sides, but to
> keep the GNU ELPA package uptodate.  If the development takes place in
> `elpa', then it comes for free.
>

Right, then that's the way to do it (Justine is, as I understand it,
starting from scratch with Emacs development/Savannah/Bazaar development in
any case, so might as well start in the way that's easiest to go on.)

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Justine Alexandra Roberts Tunney <jtunney@gmail.com> writes:

> Looking into things, it seems like the process for getting this
> approved with my employer is onerous. I'm currently really busy at
> work so it might be another few weeks before I can submit everything.

Did you ever get the copyright papers sorted out?

> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 8:59 PM, Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> wrote:
>
>  On 15 April 2013 01:56, Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
>
>  > Hello, I'm the maintainer of the ELPA package coffee-mode. I'd like to have
>  > access to the bzr repository so I can keep the emacs source file up to date
>  > from the development that's been done on GitHub.
>
>  Thanks.  [ I really wish people could just use `elpa' as the main
>  repository so we don't have to constantly deal with such synchronization.  ]
>
>  You installed the sources originally and they've not been updated
>  since; is there anything to be done?

From this page:
https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/coffee-mode.html

We are linking here:
https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode

Which says:
> Installation via package.el
>
> coffee-mode is available on MELPA and MELPA-STABLE.
>
> You can install coffee-mode with the following command.
>
> M-x package-install [RET] coffee-mode [RET]
>
> Please do not install GNU Emacs Lisp Package Archive version.
>
> It's too old and many features(Block string, block comment etc) are not implemented.

The version on GNU ELPA was last updated in 2013.  On the other hand,
the GitHub repository has seen updates as late as March 2017.

Should the GNU ELPA package really be kept around if it is
unmaintained and not recommended by the author?  What's the way
forward here?

Thanks,
Stefan Kangas

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Monnier]

> Should the GNU ELPA package really be kept around if it is
> unmaintained and not recommended by the author?  What's the way
> forward here?

Updating it sounds like the better option,


        Stefan

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> > Should the GNU ELPA package really be kept around if it is
> > unmaintained and not recommended by the author?  What's the way
> > forward here?
>
> Updating it sounds like the better option,

OK.  I guess that means that someone has to check the copyrights of
all committers since our version and upstream diverged, make sure that
all of them has the assignment, and if all checks out, to add it to
ELPA.  Is that correct?

Perhaps a new wishlist bug report would be better to track that work?

Thanks,
Stefan Kangas

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>
>> > Should the GNU ELPA package really be kept around if it is
>> > unmaintained and not recommended by the author?  What's the way
>> > forward here?
>>
>> Updating it sounds like the better option,
>
> OK.  I guess that means that someone has to check the copyrights of
> all committers since our version and upstream diverged, make sure that
> all of them has the assignment, and if all checks out, to add it to
> ELPA.  Is that correct?

I submitted a bug report, and this is the reply from the current
maintainers:

    "I don't have GNU elpa commit permission and cannot update
    it. Please use MELPA version."

    https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372

I'm not sure what to do about it.  They don't sound interested to do all
of the above work, and I don't know if it's worth trying to push it.  It
seems like an uphill battle.  Perhaps we should just note this down as a
package to include in NonGNU ELPA?

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 08.09.2020 17:05, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> I'm not sure what to do about it.  They don't sound interested to do all
> of the above work, and I don't know if it's worth trying to push it.  It
> seems like an uphill battle.  Perhaps we should just note this down as a
> package to include in NonGNU ELPA?

If NonGNU ELPA materializes soon, sure.

Personally, I'd just remove it.

CoffeeScript's popularity has declined a lot in the recent years, so 
we're not missing much in the long run.

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> If NonGNU ELPA materializes soon, sure.

It's in the works, but there is no ETA yet.

> Personally, I'd just remove it.

No objections from me.

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Reuben Thomas via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

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On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 15:59, Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> wrote:

> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>
> > If NonGNU ELPA materializes soon, sure.
>
> It's in the works, but there is no ETA yet.
>
> > Personally, I'd just remove it.
>
> No objections from me.
>

FWIW I tried pinging Justine by another channel; I'll let you know if
there's any reply; but I suspect that given the only recent activity was
merging 3 pull requests this past March, it's not an active project, and
the point about the declining popularity of Coffee is well made.

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

> FWIW I tried pinging Justine by another channel; I'll let you know if
> there's any reply

Good, thanks.

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Monnier]

> FWIW I tried pinging Justine by another channel; I'll let you know if
> there's any reply;

If there is, do let them know that even if they don't have push rights,
they can send me an email and I can do the fetch+push for them.
Of course, that presumes that they have merged the changes that were in
elpa.git (if any).


        Stefan

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

> If there is, do let them know that even if they don't have push rights,
> they can send me an email and I can do the fetch+push for them.
> Of course, that presumes that they have merged the changes that were in
> elpa.git (if any).

I'd also remind them about the copyright assignment requirement.

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 08.09.2020 18:15, Reuben Thomas wrote:
> FWIW I tried pinging Justine by another channel; I'll let you know if 
> there's any reply; but I suspect that given the only recent activity was 
> merging 3 pull requests this past March, it's not an active project, and 
> the point about the declining popularity of Coffee is well made.

Syohei Yoshida seems to be the current maintainer, though. And even 
though the recent activity has only been merging 3 PRs, there is a 
significant amount of his commits made during previous years.

And he doesn't have copyright assignment.

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Reuben Thomas via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

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On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 22:34, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:

>
> Syohei Yoshida seems to be the current maintainer, though. And even
> though the recent activity has only been merging 3 PRs, there is a
> significant amount of his commits made during previous years.
>

Good spot, I hadn't noticed the change of maintainership. But still,
Justine would have to assign copyright. So indeed it doesn't look like it's
getting any easier, probably best therefore to go ahead and remove from
ELPA.

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Justine Tunney]

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I'm happy to sign a copyright grant and do anything else the Emacs
maintainers need. Please note coffee-mode was originally authored by Chris
Wanstrath (guy who started GitHub) so you might need to reach out to him
too. Point is true about declining popularity. I myself am not as
enthusiastic about coffeescript as I once was. I am still enthusiastic
about Emacs!

On Tue, Sep 8, 2020 at 2:36 PM Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Sep 2020 at 22:34, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
>
>>
>> Syohei Yoshida seems to be the current maintainer, though. And even
>> though the recent activity has only been merging 3 PRs, there is a
>> significant amount of his commits made during previous years.
>>
>
> Good spot, I hadn't noticed the change of maintainership. But still,
> Justine would have to assign copyright. So indeed it doesn't look like it's
> getting any easier, probably best therefore to go ahead and remove from
> ELPA.
>
> --
> https://rrt.sc3d.org
>

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bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Monnier]

> I'm happy to sign a copyright grant and do anything else the Emacs
> maintainers need.

Great!
Then, please fill the form below and email it as instructed to the FSF
so they can send you the relevant paperwork to sign.

> Please note coffee-mode was originally authored by Chris
> Wanstrath (guy who started GitHub) so you might need to reach out to him
> too.

He signed the paperwork some years ago already,

> I am still enthusiastic about Emacs!

That's the spirit!


        Stefan


Please email the following information to assign@gnu.org, and we
will send you the assignment form for your past and future changes.

Please use your full legal name (in ASCII characters) as the subject
line of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
REQUEST: SEND FORM FOR PAST AND FUTURE CHANGES

[What is the name of the program or package you're contributing to?]
Emacs

[Did you copy any files or text written by someone else in these changes?
Even if that material is free software, we need to know about it.]


[Do you have an employer who might have a basis to claim to own
your changes?  Do you attend a school which might make such a claim?]


[For the copyright registration, what country are you a citizen of?]


[What year were you born?]


[Please write your email address here.]


[Please write your postal address here.]





[Which files have you changed so far, and which new files have you written
so far?]

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Please note coffee-mode was originally authored by Chris
>> Wanstrath (guy who started GitHub) so you might need to reach out to him
>> too.
>
> He signed the paperwork some years ago already,

I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:

    https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 10.09.2020 17:33, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:
> 
>      https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372

He replied that he already signed, and indeed, that's the case.

I just couldn't find his name in the list because it is written 
differently there (Syohei).

bug#14204: Interested in joining savannah emacs project

[Stefan Kangas]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 10.09.2020 17:33, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>> I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:
>>
>>      https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372
>
> He replied that he already signed, and indeed, that's the case.

That leaves us with the task of chasing down the other contributors.

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Stefan Kangas]

Hi Philip,

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>
>> On 10.09.2020 17:33, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>> I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:
>>>
>>>      https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372
>>
>> He replied that he already signed, and indeed, that's the case.
>
> That leaves us with the task of chasing down the other contributors.

I guess this should also rather be going to NonGNU ELPA at this point?
I can see you posted in the above issue, so I assume you are looking
into it?  Thanks in advance.

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Philip Kaludercic]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Hi Philip,
>
> Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
>
>> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
>>
>>> On 10.09.2020 17:33, Stefan Kangas wrote:
>>>> I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:
>>>>
>>>>      https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372
>>>
>>> He replied that he already signed, and indeed, that's the case.
>>
>> That leaves us with the task of chasing down the other contributors.
>
> I guess this should also rather be going to NonGNU ELPA at this point?
> I can see you posted in the above issue, so I assume you are looking
> into it?  Thanks in advance.

I haven't looked further into the issue since, nor have I checked how
many people have significant contributions without having signed the
copyright papers.

From a quick check, it seems that most major contributions were made
before 2014, which is the current state in GNU ELPA.  So it might be
possible to check if these few have either signed or are willing to sign
the papers, before we move the package to NonGNU ELPA.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Reuben Thomas via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

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I just ran the following command on the current version of coffee-mode.el
at https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode:

git blame coffee-mode.el --porcelain | grep  "^author "|sort|uniq -c

This shows the following authors with more than 15 lines of code:

Chris Wanstrath
Danny McClanahan
Denis Washington
Justine Tunney
Petri Lehtinen
Reuben Thomas (me!)
Syohei Yoshida
Tim McGilchrist

Of course, this is not a rigorous assessment, as it could include commits
where the committer has simply reformatted code. I then skimmed through the
entire history and did not find any major reformatting commits, so it seems
that the above list is indeed correct.

At this stage, given that coffee-mode is unlikely to be that popular, I
think it's probably a waste of effort to try to get signatures from any
authors who haven't yet signed; so if there are authors who haven't, then
NonGNU ELPA is the right place to put it.

On Fri, 22 Oct 2021 at 20:34, Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> wrote:

> Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
>
> > Hi Philip,
> >
> > Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:
> >
> >> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
> >>
> >>> On 10.09.2020 17:33, Stefan Kangas wrote:
> >>>> I have also asked the current maintainer to sign the papers here:
> >>>>
> >>>>      https://github.com/defunkt/coffee-mode/issues/372
> >>>
> >>> He replied that he already signed, and indeed, that's the case.
> >>
> >> That leaves us with the task of chasing down the other contributors.
> >
> > I guess this should also rather be going to NonGNU ELPA at this point?
> > I can see you posted in the above issue, so I assume you are looking
> > into it?  Thanks in advance.
>
> I haven't looked further into the issue since, nor have I checked how
> many people have significant contributions without having signed the
> copyright papers.
>
> From a quick check, it seems that most major contributions were made
> before 2014, which is the current state in GNU ELPA.  So it might be
> possible to check if these few have either signed or are willing to sign
> the papers, before we move the package to NonGNU ELPA.
>
> --
>         Philip Kaludercic
>


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bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Stefan Kangas]

Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:

> At this stage, given that coffee-mode is unlikely to be that popular, I
> think it's probably a waste of effort to try to get signatures from any
> authors who haven't yet signed; so if there are authors who haven't, then
> NonGNU ELPA is the right place to put it.

I don't know much about CoffeeScript and web development in general, but
I was searching online and found this assessment:

    In summary, CoffeeScript began as a fantastic idea (making it easier
    to write JavaScript code); ultimately, however, it didn’t stand the
    test of time and was pushed out by JavaScript. Currently, hardly
    anyone remembers it. Most new people in the front-end environment
    don’t even know such a language existed. Instead of being included
    in lists of the most popular new programming languages, it takes top
    spots on the lists of the worst languages ​​to learn.

    https://betterprogramming.pub/how-coffeescript-got-forgotten-812328225987

If the above is any indication, I would say we have better things to
focus on and move it to NonGNU ELPA.  But that's me.

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Philip Kaludercic]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> Reuben Thomas <rrt@sc3d.org> writes:
>
>> At this stage, given that coffee-mode is unlikely to be that popular, I
>> think it's probably a waste of effort to try to get signatures from any
>> authors who haven't yet signed; so if there are authors who haven't, then
>> NonGNU ELPA is the right place to put it.
>
> I don't know much about CoffeeScript and web development in general, but
> I was searching online and found this assessment:
>
>     In summary, CoffeeScript began as a fantastic idea (making it easier
>     to write JavaScript code); ultimately, however, it didn’t stand the
>     test of time and was pushed out by JavaScript.

I am not sure if this is the case, or if it was pushed out by another
high-level JavaScript language, Microsoft's TypeScript. They appear to
have shared a common trajectory to their respective Electron editors
(CoffeeScript was used to write the now stagnating Atom, TypeScript was
used to write the currently popular VSCode).

On that topic, I have contacted the typescript-mode maintainers a while
back and they have agreed to distribute their package on NonGNU ELPA.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Stefan Kangas]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> I am not sure if this is the case, or if it was pushed out by another
> high-level JavaScript language, Microsoft's TypeScript. They appear to
> have shared a common trajectory to their respective Electron editors
> (CoffeeScript was used to write the now stagnating Atom, TypeScript was
> used to write the currently popular VSCode).

I arrive at the same conclusion: it's better to move coffee-mode.el to
NonGNU ELPA, which saves us from having to chase down copyright
assignments.  We can then use our time for more important things, such
as chasing down assignments for higher priority packages.  WDYT?

bug#14204: [ELPA] Update coffe-mode.el to latest version

[Stefan Kangas]

Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se> writes:

> I arrive at the same conclusion: it's better to move coffee-mode.el to
> NonGNU ELPA, which saves us from having to chase down copyright
> assignments.  We can then use our time for more important things, such
> as chasing down assignments for higher priority packages.  WDYT?

No further comments within 3 months, so unless there are any objections
I will go ahead and delete this package from GNU ELPA and move it to
NonGNU ELPA instead.