From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Josh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: icomplete-mode vs. iswitchb Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:07:21 -0800 Message-ID: References: <8761ra7uq3.fsf@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1386371281 7516 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2013 23:08:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 23:08:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stephen Eglen , emacs-devel To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 07 00:08:07 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vp4VC-0001aC-JX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:08:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33818 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vp4VB-0004Co-T5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:08:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:39968) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vp4V5-0004Ch-Gn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:08:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vp4V1-0006HJ-5d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:07:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com ([209.85.212.170]:44636) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vp4V0-0006HD-W2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 18:07:55 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f170.google.com with SMTP id hq4so1648087wib.1 for ; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:07:54 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=U6eUg1+CEZqAm70VRZHLCUGNxt+r5uV82JdeOQTGWyA=; b=Xx/ZJwuoPV0bGh9tVrorTUUjf6f/5tZoNmCRsQFayKAhuPku4fescdLKmUCs/JP42P DY7XHYwE6QeR2hunwXLR5XtFW4EdAcECSI1HT1An9AYjRe/g8jQm4zo0Ty0NmdBr78Vv O8j9eEe99K/Rh1H1BRpqINdL9K/CAFY0p+pMWlgEHYrWwuy05fJDUwGKg1sqjXhcp6Pg N4DjbUapPVKuzR5TksO8MU1bqvFey5Bgeb0IkvcYZyb5sfJF5WOl6raITw+XTqGYbiAu DvC0SthTUm0t17uw+9ryhkx4TE6BHTaS24iooOUNJW4JJ9iniafdygcDgdToOhJvdznf QB6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlEILduzL1kjDCUO/xshTCX4vr7Ym6c7keAQkie8n9bCekuxhxlQ0GX+/r8qRoJBrxdGAAR X-Received: by 10.180.89.68 with SMTP id bm4mr4746308wib.0.1386371274111; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:07:54 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.24.7 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Dec 2013 15:07:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: bXZ9rz7GVs0yXNZeDnwMfMt-Eq0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.212.170 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:166180 Archived-At: On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Stefan Monnier wrote: SM> SE> As the author of iswitchb, I was slightly surprised to see this, but SM> SE> only because I was expecting (or hoping) that it would be superseded by SM> SE> ido.el! As was I, and I pressed the point[0] until it became clear to me that Stefan had already made up his mind. SM> No, ido is a superset of iswitchb, but AFAICT there's no way to SM> customize ido such that it works like iswitchb. This seems like a decision that merits more investigation than "AFAICT". SM> SE> Is ido.el also marked as obsolete? SM> No. Well... not yet; see below. The subject of ido came up again a couple of weeks later in the "Finding packages to enable by default" thread[1]: SM> Tom> I did some manual filtering as a test and here are some of the top packages SM> Tom> which remained: SM> Tom> (ido . 137) [12 features omitted] SM> Tom> (iswitchb . 46) [ 2 features omitted] SM> Tom> (icomplete . 34) SM> Tom> (winner . 34) [...] SM> Tom> Ido is at the top (iswitchb is also here) and ido/isiwtchb would really SM> Tom> make a much better first impression for new users than the default SM> Tom> very barebone buffer switching. SM> SM> Iswitchb is marked obsolete in the trunk: you can get the same SM> functionality with icomplete-mode. So you can increase the count of SM> `icomplete-mode' for all users who have enabled iswitchb without SM> enabling icomplete-mode. Ido's count of 137 is still far greater than the combined count of 80 for icomplete and iswitchb, even leaving aside the tenuous assumption that 100% of iswitchb users would make an informed choice in icomplete's favor. As mentioned, here's the bit about ido's obsolescence: SM> The plan for "ido by default" is rather to slowly make ido obsolete by SM> adding the corresponding functionality either in the default completion SM> UI or in icomplete-mode. SM> An alternative is to try and re-implement it on top of the current SM> completion UI. To a large extent, it boils down to the same. There's a lot of user code and many libraries built on top of ido. If it's obsoleted down the line I hope there is an effort to preserve the current interfaces and behavior to minimize breakage. Is that the plan? [0] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-11/msg00507.html [1] http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2013-12/msg00103.html jlf