From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Skip Montanaro Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why use CTL-x CTL-c to quit instead of CTL-x CTL-q? Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2021 07:34:58 -0500 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7290"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs To: Hongyi Zhao Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 06 14:38:35 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lTkyY-0001mt-UI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 14:38:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56554 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lTkyX-0007tC-Se for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:38:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39406) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lTkva-0004eI-M7 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:35:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-yb1-xb36.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36]:35489) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lTkvX-0001pl-Vf for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 08:35:30 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-yb1-xb36.google.com with SMTP id o198so9749950yba.2 for ; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 05:35:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=e6OnM5bZ3xYSVwJYQgp+9K6uNqQrNpmEWygZLs+RmFQ=; b=nTVny3RqN9SBBXhulgFBO7ddgstewwUA/dT/v2OmDCHTWDV9aKwFKwTkUTNkiGM25K pysoZVEafO9E6nH95tkHnvwY5nXIgnKkYIv0mZ7YnkgVo9js74eYNDe3V2lcL5T+8jRo nSZ1rypR38tR5mpi2Hby4dM4cDIfjznTdpzuHyylcPBSRRxocW0B2NkY+JeY+3n4DvM2 gbeFnL3bNqGUpV+8xi1yHVTJwtd2JBr7sMkHNik2DQ8/TU6303+a9zt2BwqUjiGEILHL aIL6Tb8v9g81gKBu2aFI+hnVSenYhafXGOS6OZcMj/LpNhLpg8vbBsZNgRWSs9h7wRYo Uaxg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=e6OnM5bZ3xYSVwJYQgp+9K6uNqQrNpmEWygZLs+RmFQ=; b=gLqqRDDm6FC0+DNN7mkJI6A+AUo/Rn/tePudI5X9yBYTp2ZVPr1ODAVw7rZ1/xg/qG th8JFUC7YnSUbaOj4l3sFqrqqhVK5cOaCcytW+8UeoOy2Wqjrh8RttwhroKF6EuahTX2 yVpDXAnxaveTpAv2e5UmyJuUX4i/dCeJ5pEzJPpjTOsLsyMMxyMm/0psM1ptHh1nGTld /re+NEO5gl4KO60InG1iE83FCVIM6cP3fUKm+bKueblEjTvWXbk++AWe9mImhxUwmrez mhWoVtXnpji+ud/aQxWFa+pvgQv1gBQuXxO4YXKcTSBDp8o5mKvB6hj9maHB16li58md DxZQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531uV/H/KKppxI4W6ZYNxPRK7oBxXXZwQ1UC3miZTn53yXERIq5j w0k3i1S1O9Rgj3P6GvlacPnQFjy0GpAW6H0N6xNjIHA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy6PzI0qmHmUs8rp0oIItPCUvArig56sB7CT44WCf+H0NecUNg787wU1rnEdXFQdoiXcPwtca5tviL5+0xulw8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:bb91:: with SMTP id y17mr39317728ybg.200.1617712524170; Tue, 06 Apr 2021 05:35:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::b36; envelope-from=skip.montanaro@gmail.com; helo=mail-yb1-xb36.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:128860 Archived-At: > Obviously, from a mnemonic perspective, CTL-x CTL-q is more intuitive than CTL-x CTL-c. Jean already provided a precise reply to your question. I've seen several questions about the Emacs interface over the past year or so. Indulge an old crank for a couple minutes. I will offer a more general reply on why I think the Emacs keybindings are the way they are. Emacs availability predates Windows and Unix by a fair bit. It predates common graphical user interface technology by more than that. In fact, Emacs was popular enough by the time Windows and Unix were around that other implementations of Emacs existed before that, both as spin-offs of the GNU Emacs codebase as well as complete rewrites. The Wikipedia page about Emacs provides useful background: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emacs GNU Emacs first appeared in 1976 or thereabouts (and not on Unix). Technically, Unix had already moved through several versions by that point, but it was still captive to Bell Labs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix In contrast, Microsoft Windows didn't appear for another ten years or so as a response to the success of the commercialization of graphical user interfaces by Apple's Macintosh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows ISTR Stallman was resistant to a port of Emacs to the Mac before the release of Mac OS X, largely because of his stance on closed-source software. I believe he was resistant to a Windows port for a long time too. It was a different story after the release of Mac OS X, since it was a Unix-based system under the covers. I don't think Stallman could have resisted the port at that point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_operating_systems By the time that Emacs was available on Windows and Macs, we are talking well beyond the mid-80s. I don't know when a Windows port became available, but Mac OS X wasn't released to the public until 2001. I'm not sure when it was ported to Windows, but likely not before version 19.24. See the release history table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Emacs#Release_history So, Emacs's roots lie in the pre-Unix/Windows/Mac history of computing. Nearly as important, they lie in the pre-GUI history of computing. By the time Windows, Unix and Macs were around, the Emacs user interface was quite stable. While users can (and do) do pretty much anything they want w.r.t. key bindings, I don't think changing the defaults as the winds of computing changed would have been the right thing to do. There is value in a certain amount of consistency, even if it isn't "perfect." Skip P.S. Do vi/vim users wonder why its key bindings don't correspond more strongly to common Windows, Mac or Unix/Linux interface standards? I rarely need to use vim, but if they changed the quit command (:q or :q!) I'd be completely lost. How would I ever get back to the shell prompt? Oh, right, C-z followed by kill(1).