From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 02:32:49 +0100 Message-ID: References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <4F31C3E8.9090208@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328664802 996 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2012 01:33:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:33:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Nix , egnarts-ms , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 02:33:20 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuwPL-0003LV-Ao for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 02:33:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45404 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuwPK-0000Nb-1a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:33:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:35717) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuwPH-0000NK-Pc for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:33:12 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuwPG-0000Ev-Ds for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:33:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lpp01m010-f41.google.com ([209.85.215.41]:35985) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuwPG-0000Er-8A for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:33:10 -0500 Original-Received: by lamf4 with SMTP id f4so52745lam.0 for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:33:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=M6VPyqlD4qhMTrorXvhPd0hoe05g1Ne7dFbbS9Uc7Ms=; b=ub+Bpgk8l0SQwUzaAomgwtPbL9fy8VWIRZ9muZ3ZVBN/2vprV7HEZk+p+ZxevaxjpS +0msLLiMX3TY0piqd6yCxJRQyMVkBaeKBRD2gcEiWuGFVcxCBab5DKub/t6f7n0d6uWH DcXt3M4TjUEO4jk5k4bI04F7FZPOjCode5ZIk= Original-Received: by 10.112.40.101 with SMTP id w5mr7023054lbk.97.1328664789130; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:33:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.12.6 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 17:32:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4F31C3E8.9090208@dancol.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.215.41 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148337 Archived-At: On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 01:38, Daniel Colascione wrote: > On 2/7/12 3:48 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> I've never understood what's wrong with including cl.el, nor why the >> >> The main issue is namespace. =C2=A0If someone goes through the code to r= ename >> it all to "cl-*", then we won't need to avoid using it. > > I don't think the namespace is an issue. A _lot_ of people do, in > fact, (require 'cl), and packages continue to work for them. If there > were any serious conflicts, they'd already be fixed. > > In other words, I don't think you can find an elisp package that only > works properly if cl isn't loaded. I have seen the problem. My conclusion is rather that most users do not understand complex problems very well.