From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 20:11:11 +0100 Message-ID: References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328641903 28707 80.91.229.3 (7 Feb 2012 19:11:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 19:11:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: egnarts-ms , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 07 20:11:41 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RuqS2-0008Tp-0J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 20:11:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57317 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuqS1-00014j-5a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:11:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:38562) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuqRy-00011s-8w for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:11:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuqRx-00082d-AS for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:11:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lpp01m020-f169.google.com ([209.85.217.169]:36613) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RuqRx-00082P-3H for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:11:33 -0500 Original-Received: by lbbgg6 with SMTP id gg6so2070957lbb.0 for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:11:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ogb2zgK8pFWzmndoHuVUlydnWxvZzxEaR91Fa/di7co=; b=qv6X7s+ClgYieRa+UXmOLHn5KHOWAHIuoZfJQQrc+ec1loH4y3ih2f8pwZniEBcDI+ bQaWCx0RJpKKXD5Gw73TMfvzkSkMeYuhJqgrYQxIHGLScdsQoERzd53NgomrpH0c7gVl sAvf0oug8I/S1Ts3TWe6Z7TYmKH4vrxhZKKH0= Original-Received: by 10.112.48.36 with SMTP id i4mr6637789lbn.84.1328641891310; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 11:11:31 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.12.6 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 11:11:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.217.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148312 Archived-At: On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 19:43, Nix wrote: > On 6 Feb 2012, Drew Adams outgrape: >> 2. There are lots of people who use cl.el. =C2=A0There are even lots of = people who >> systematically write libraries that depend on cl.el functions at runtime= (not >> just macros at compile time). =C2=A0Unfortunately. =C2=A0My impression i= s that this might >> be increasingly the case, and that perhaps younger or newer Emacs users = are more >> likely to do so. > > I've never understood what's wrong with including cl.el, nor why the > byte-compiler should warn specially about it, any more than it warns > about any other package. XEmacs has had cl.el in the dumped set for > absolutely ages and it has caused zero problems as far as I know. > > So what's wrong with using it? It's there, it's always available, and if > you steer clear of the buggy bits it provides some useful facilities. > But Emacs packages persist in reimplementing them over and over in > package after package rather than just requiring 'cl and being done with > it. There are things that do not work if you include cl.el at run time. You may not notice the problems and tracking it down has been quite difficult some times.