From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 21:41:20 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c24fc2e2a6a304ef3f2cc0 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388954525 20384 80.91.229.3 (5 Jan 2014 20:42:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 5 Jan 2014 20:42:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eric Raymond , Toby Cubitt , Emacs-Devel devel To: "Richard M. Stallman" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 05 21:42:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VzuWQ-0000Oe-Oe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 21:42:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59352 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzuWQ-0002eg-9D for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 15:42:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56859) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzuWL-0002eb-Tr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 15:42:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzuWK-0003O3-OQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 15:42:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]:47008) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VzuWI-0003Nj-W7; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 15:42:03 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wi0-f179.google.com with SMTP id z2so2141950wiv.6 for ; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:42:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=J+cvg8Mqc+hi/eIoERwAeDVfY1FbyI+vhTiecnjNIYo=; b=d700GJmYMS2j0to/XIvvPZEVaHVMuELsz7/yJU+NmIdOJs71HEND6HFC5byES+KF7B 3BQHwV5Gu8tvpJjN1T3ER9Hm8VFNCR84FX7majsGuLzdhL39GGZm4izpyEqc31KRvZ8t zGaqbRur+cw8QJvyOEc15U262iH04alJHXSly4I4zOeD42E3yXzxaUVPbRAH/ACWZpYD LwyhgBsOmIuFy6TaAGxqtibMwDZunjqPZXy1Da1/102kKOyx2SOwTHJWAY2X7GCBOlIT ZeaNV0D49QRitcbxbnqneXBeekO0bkJLclUWv68w56Lq/yKbIsEq6d/deiiPrbGA0kM9 oesQ== X-Received: by 10.180.12.83 with SMTP id w19mr4138002wib.16.1388954521870; Sun, 05 Jan 2014 12:42:01 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.216.227 with HTTP; Sun, 5 Jan 2014 12:41:20 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167397 Archived-At: --001a11c24fc2e2a6a304ef3f2cc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: > There are the standard modern terms cut, paste and copy. > > It is also about the key-bindings. cua-mode should be a first class citizen in Emacs. As it is now enabling cua-mode is possible, but the manuals does not fit entirely when you do. And that is of course troubles for new users. > In regard to windows, buffers and frames, we could have a mode of > operation which ties each buffer to a one-window frame. That would > eliminate a lot of complexity. > Buffer is a new concept and it is fine. But "frames" and "windows" in Emacs is of course confusing for beginners. More standard terms would be good for them, I guess. > We could even offer that as the mode of use for beginners, if that > would make it easier for a new generation of hackers to become Emacs > users. I don't know whether it WOULD have that effect, but if it > would, I think it is a good idea. > > A mode for beginners would be good, but the exact content of such a mode is worth considering. As you know I did something like this in the EmacsW32 distribution for MS Windows (which I do not have time to maintain any more, merging took me too much time since my addiitons took too long to be accepted into Emacs). > Do beginners typically run Emacs under a graphical window system? > Yes, of course. --001a11c24fc2e2a6a304ef3f2cc0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On S= un, Jan 5, 2014 at 9:20 PM, Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrote:
There are the standard modern terms cut, paste and copy.

It is also about the key-bindings. cua-mode should be= a first class citizen in Emacs. As it is now enabling cua-mode is possible= , but the manuals does not fit entirely when you do. And that is of course = troubles for new users.
=C2=A0
In regard to windows, buffers and frames, we could have a mode of
operation which ties each buffer to a one-window frame. =C2=A0That would eliminate a lot of complexity.

Buffer i= s a new concept and it is fine. But "frames" and "windows&qu= ot; in Emacs is of course confusing for beginners. More standard terms woul= d be good for them, I guess.
=C2=A0
We could even offer that as the mode of use for beginners, if that
would make it easier for a new generation of hackers to become Emacs
users. =C2=A0I don't know whether it WOULD have that effect, but if it<= br> would, I think it is a good idea.

A mode for beginners would be good, but the exact con= tent of such a mode is worth considering. As you know I did something like = this in the EmacsW32 distribution for MS Windows (which I do not have time = to maintain any more, merging took me too much time since my addiitons took= too long to be accepted into Emacs).
=C2=A0
Do beginners typically run Emacs under a graphical window system?

=
Yes, of course.

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