From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 21:42:47 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <3096922F-ACE6-4D70-BDB9-F6110FF8C62A@gmail.com> <7cecbad5-1f01-4c73-811a-aa11cc21d0a0@default> <70ad79fc-f0ea-4d57-8866-79be6362731f@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b874d82aed40704ef676d53 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389127410 27457 80.91.229.3 (7 Jan 2014 20:43:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 20:43:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Reitter , Emacs-Devel devel To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 21:43:37 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0dUs-0001hZ-LT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:43:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42824 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0dUs-0005VW-9V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:43:34 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44083) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0dUo-0005Uw-6g for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:43:31 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0dUm-0006u7-RG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:43:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-wg0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c00::233]:37448) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0dUm-0006t9-Jz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:43:28 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-wg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id z12so463975wgg.18 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:43:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Ga71IXKq6MUn2lUNfLNOuzcGLKwep+NS45WKJOhJwLY=; b=ii50wUoK6AgwICO4OnCqH77iDkChzZyW1pFjhf6SUpcxcOeYkl+YyWWRxY/lq6py0r k8pC3wbfmyKI7pJuoF9Djiyyf0RZtwxjEpePyKdNSDnBetQQ5AhuW3TlKqJoCOwvmQV4 JBu+3hVOOCP953XdEtOwHSLcZa90nml7bAf78r+2zWJv+mDrBmT+7fYgsCknj6b7H6MK 3laDreVfBXEAvUjsHPMQLbNZITJhR2U3iaG7gAJ9EvgGZYs8l9yoaBM4u0nX1oNX43l2 0QY1LWs48ZZ0A3PZ4KiyfWGSWGcmCSPMqa4gTuazt89uXexEelOqljf9AEdmDHB7oBN8 C1HA== X-Received: by 10.180.21.244 with SMTP id y20mr18732882wie.37.1389127407684; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 12:43:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.216.227 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 12:42:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <70ad79fc-f0ea-4d57-8866-79be6362731f@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c00::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167675 Archived-At: --047d7b874d82aed40704ef676d53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > One has only to look at the questions on a site such as > StackOverflow, not especially those about Emacs, but generally > (and apparently about PHP in particular), to see that some users > expect instant familiarity with a product without any effort - not > even a cursory look at the doc or a Google search. The SO site > leaders are continually lamenting the poor quality of (some) > questions and askers. Some people really do expect a royal road > to learning. Encouraging them in that does not help them or > anyone else. > > The main road to learning is probably that it is fun. That is how our brains work. Learning new names for wellknown things is not that fun. It is just trivial. (Unless you are learning a new language, of course.) I would expect Emacs new comers to look for the real interesting things in Emacs. And those who do that are perhaps those that have most to gain from Emacs. They might just stop because of the boring trivial things. --047d7b874d82aed40704ef676d53 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Jan 7, 2014 at 9:31 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

One has only to look at the questions on a site such as
StackOverflow, not especially those about Emacs, but generally
(and apparently about PHP in particular), to see that some users
expect instant familiarity with a product without any effort - not
even a cursory look at the doc or a Google search. =C2=A0The SO site
leaders are continually lamenting the poor quality of (some)
questions and askers. =C2=A0Some people really do expect a royal road
to learning. =C2=A0Encouraging them in that does not help them or
anyone else.


The main road to learning is probably that it is fun= . That is how our brains work. Learning new names for wellknown things is n= ot that fun. It is just trivial. (Unless you are learning a new language, o= f course.)

I would expect Emacs new comers to look for the real interesting things= in Emacs. And those who do that are perhaps those that have most to gain f= rom Emacs. They might just stop because of the boring trivial things.
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