From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs terminology (not again!?) [was: Apologia for bzr] Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 20:17:57 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <3096922F-ACE6-4D70-BDB9-F6110FF8C62A@gmail.com> <7cecbad5-1f01-4c73-811a-aa11cc21d0a0@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c37c10436cea04ef663e90 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389122328 26208 80.91.229.3 (7 Jan 2014 19:18:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Jan 2014 19:18:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Richard Stallman , Toby Cubitt , Emacs-Devel devel , Eric Raymond , Stefan Monnier , Joel Mccracken , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 20:18:51 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0cAp-000543-Cs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 20:18:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42414 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0cAo-0001UY-S7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:18:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:50737) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0cAi-0001R2-QS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:18:41 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0cAh-0005NK-Lz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:18:40 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-we0-x234.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c03::234]:57428) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0cAg-0005Mw-7f; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:18:38 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-we0-f180.google.com with SMTP id t61so563341wes.11 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=/CFfIla1YTYMv4tllJRorUxHZiumNEJ7SO6eGcPJjYA=; b=KdjuvrqoROSl82GcrCeqzwxvJk1hRS4fAgG/FXQT1XFZWYQj4TVnc99ZaLwnEmG3ZA a5aWWXaw1KyyLttdE7MHdwKn2/FfDx/BG+5gDdPseuSL1ki9lGq8Gi0QudtBQqXcI0XN Wo43UZ93btWv7nMiEYhAZzfFBCZ724E6SsPLCB/aZ80Htf1CoHvsIU0b6iZuqq3qRU5v bPvHNl9FEbi99kLLcERxZzUrCcCrHxep75qDH6TvmY22Nr1h+P1g4xJxqIxC0RaHL2wo 1hJzh7Uu+5LnrmhSpJTAFVMsiZj8QSGZZd3NbLL9TbKDhYN5nUFhcUCe9yDOhk5NIT4B ZaUA== X-Received: by 10.180.206.11 with SMTP id lk11mr18248379wic.16.1389122317149; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 11:18:37 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.194.216.227 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Jan 2014 11:17:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7cecbad5-1f01-4c73-811a-aa11cc21d0a0@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c03::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167663 Archived-At: --001a11c37c10436cea04ef663e90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > The right takeaway for a new user is that learning Emacs is > learning something new and different - it is not your momma's > editor. And it rightfully has its own terminology, which you > had better learn also. > > Did not someone say it was his momma's editor? ;-) I think you are taking your points too far. For me the problem is how to make a good road into Emacs for new users. I want a feeling like "this is what I am used to and now I am glad I discovered the new possibilities". It should be both familiar and new at the same time. > The Greek philosopher Proclus records that when Ptolemy asked > if there wasn't perhaps an easier way to learn Emacs than Emacs, > Euclid replied, "Sire, there is no royal road to Emacs." > There might be some translation error or misunderstanding there. ;-) --001a11c37c10436cea04ef663e90 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= ue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:06 PM, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:

The right takeaway for a new user is that learning Emacs is
learning something new and different - it is not your momma's
editor. =C2=A0And it rightfully has its own terminology, which you
had better learn also.

=C2=A0
Did not someone say it was his momma= 's editor? ;-)
I think you are taking your points too far. For me th= e problem is how to make a good road into Emacs for new users. I want a fee= ling like "this is what I am used to and now I am glad I discovered th= e new possibilities". It should be both familiar and new at the same t= ime.
=C2=A0
The Greek philosopher Proclus records that when Ptolemy asked
if there wasn't perhaps an easier way to learn Emacs than Emacs,
Euclid replied, "Sire, there is no royal road to Emacs."

There might be some translation error or misundersta= nding there. ;-)
--001a11c37c10436cea04ef663e90--