From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:10:58 +0100 Message-ID: References: <33271707.post@talk.nabble.com> <87fwemcwlx.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <8739amb3rf.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1328659892 4884 80.91.229.3 (8 Feb 2012 00:11:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 00:11:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: egnarts-ms , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nix Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 08 01:11:31 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruv8E-0000oV-Oz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 08 Feb 2012 01:11:30 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruv8D-0005nO-Kz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:50108) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruv87-0005mv-FP for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:27 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruv83-0006dg-Eg for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lpp01m020-f169.google.com ([209.85.217.169]:34659) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ruv83-0006dU-8V for Emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:19 -0500 Original-Received: by lbbgg6 with SMTP id gg6so1452lbb.0 for ; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:11:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Sd9SO7BK6sYetJQjArquq1LPeGM/hPypqjdRWSOrPKk=; b=oQUMTTWV+zygYSO7/3N1t92lz5WI2qe7ChNXUTMfJIwd6C70Ajts5PSmi3YTOHL6K3 fd3T53SuJTU48JwH8YRQaET/4yTINklNgvDvo6yI/OI4Mwogt7weUpcGLQVQAz5sxSWB rVO3L6jmnrYEmyulsys08SvcRqtkCW/ztPDqw= Original-Received: by 10.152.112.104 with SMTP id ip8mr14094296lab.15.1328659878146; Tue, 07 Feb 2012 16:11:18 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.12.6 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Feb 2012 16:10:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8739amb3rf.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.217.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:148334 Archived-At: On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 00:52, Nix wrote: > On 7 Feb 2012, Stefan Monnier said: > >>> I've never understood what's wrong with including cl.el, nor why the >> >> The main issue is namespace. =C2=A0If someone goes through the code to r= ename >> it all to "cl-*", then we won't need to avoid using it. > > Aha. I'd agree with *that*: it's always been hellishly unclear which > things are in cl or not. Its intention to sort of add to the Emacs Lisp > core with things with very similar names was perhaps praiseworthy, but > once those things started to move *into* the non-cl.el core, often with > subtly different semantics, it just got fearfully confusing. > > For compatibility reasons I suspect we need to put the renamed versions > in something new ('cl-dumped', say, or 'cl-clean'), and have the old > cl.el versions become defaliases to them. (The Emacs core's uses of cl > can be fixed up, but cl is widely used in third-party modules, so we > can't just drop those names.) But we can have the same policy as now regarding the use of the old names for things in cl.el.