From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Takesi Ayanokoji Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: translation of Emacs manual into Japanese Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:59:49 +0900 Message-ID: References: <83oa37o2mu.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1134e43617a1b0053da00633 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475132441 16819 195.159.176.226 (29 Sep 2016 07:00:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 07:00:41 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 29 09:00:34 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bpVKV-0002au-7a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:00:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35139 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpVKT-00035V-Fa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 03:00:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34337) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpVJx-000358-5j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 02:59:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpVJu-0004ij-TJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 02:59:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]:34359) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpVJu-0004ic-Mq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 02:59:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id n132so16699845oih.1 for ; Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:59:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=TUrm6XERkD9+jA4qR72RkoRYRO8SqAu9MFFRw9YLz7Q=; b=VoTRXtG6wg6JIks4U4F2Z7jYqLdoWxZgxQVRUIc88RC3cy/Qaba0qVwNbWmWlAKe9H sTDNw7N0ck/W8kJhDHl2Ib93YYvb6KPdkzc0dZsH0BFmjB+TzYit0SPyZvEVxFoG1TmG RLX7YJja1nD7J+74f+8EjgStezTK9mN/eGw+89FNAymipvMDlMVcs7Ri/QW2LgM31Clc GzxyfgzYRXCoLK+Uiyxvcgxdqpo2tCg3SqH4b2q5O4ypYYJ8bi4pASWiJxbrIKDXBIe1 pm24gRGYBROJY42b6mBR22o9533NQpdi7xLN/6oRIvwX85D5iA6NmMWj22iQAXQB6QgN gDCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=TUrm6XERkD9+jA4qR72RkoRYRO8SqAu9MFFRw9YLz7Q=; b=Ur/U8cxdgkfnX11ZkOl5Yl5fN7KfFIBd8CbmLT9N2SN9tPuTbSf7h0yTeYPNzB9Zhn 3vv5Cw0/Vs4YNEci7ASfOLIpg6isNLJmbJm14NfGQvJlGYMnuzr/X0eLszUjefTOOe5T BrnKl+8Fd1uHXnfdbpu1JaLfDktX0P25i9nstIM3NsrTd5cZhpErn+YFJql/AHCJwMOn bS2EblY9n0RJKzQurbzKpHeYsS78tmHAKha7pe48djDTOiPDa3Nbg5wYxiCvs+BP9yXG U7zqgEeOIl572/4RO83CiCDO0uJtIqlbrAsd0arvXQ0uhEDuMyiovEqB9GOOOOxALaeE ap+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9RkT1jHgScCROe3o8Qt/ut/H3r+4xNIvw97xri4H4x92zqs53qmXaGvXUsYz1PiuKNa7S6F8L5bxgAXn6g== X-Received: by 10.202.114.197 with SMTP id p188mr583217oic.132.1475132389825; Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.157.36.85 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.157.36.85 with HTTP; Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:59:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:207890 Archived-At: --001a1134e43617a1b0053da00633 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi! > The only difficulty I can see will be maintaining this document to include > future changes, since few of us speak Japanese. I didn't translate texi manual directory. Instead, I extracted translatable string from emacs-24.5's texi to PO files by using po4a utility, and then translate these PO file. After translation, I generate translated emacs-24.5's texi files from original texis and translated PO file by using po4a utility again. Up to that, this was a heavy work for me because I translated over 600 pages manual from nearly scratch. But after then, emacs-25.1 was released, updating translated manual was easy. I extracted translatable string from emacs-25.1's texi to PO files by using po4a utility, and then translate these PO file from emacs-24.5's translated PO files by using gettext's merge utility. At this point, this merged emacs-25.1's PO files ware almost Japanese but a few part that made changes in this release remain English. I translated untranslated part of PO files, and then generate Japanese manual in fact. But if I did not translate these PO manually, this cause emacs-25.1 manual almost Japanese a few English. This not means that the manual is outdated, it means up-to-date but not completely translated. So, if distribution includes translated PO files instead of translated texi files, and if any process(make's installation or maintainer's hand) generaate translated manual from these PO files, maintain cost caused by future changes will be reduced, I think. 1) gettext and po4a are used by GNUnited Nations that handles GNU's websites internationalization. See https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html#Concepts 2) I maintain translated PO files by GitHub. See https://github.com/ayatakesi/emacs-25.1-doc-emacs Thanks. --- Ayanokoji Takesi --001a1134e43617a1b0053da00633 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi!

> The only difficulty I can see will be maintaining this = document to include
> future changes, since few of us speak Japanese.

I didn't translate texi manual directory.

Instead, I extracted translatable string from emacs-24.5'= ;s texi to PO=C2=A0 files by using po4a utility, and then translate these P= O file.
After translation, I generate translated emacs-24.5's texi files from o= riginal texis and translated PO file by using po4a utility again.

Up to that, this was a heavy work for me because I translate= d over 600 pages manual from nearly scratch.
But after then, emacs-25.1 was released, updating translated manual was eas= y.

I extracted translatable string from emacs-25.1's texi t= o PO=C2=A0 files by using po4a utility, and then translate these PO file fr= om emacs-24.5's translated PO files by using gettext's merge utilit= y.

At this point, this merged emacs-25.1's PO files ware al= most Japanese but a few part that made changes in this release remain Engli= sh.

I translated untranslated part of PO files, and then generat= e Japanese manual in fact.

But if I did not translate these PO manually, this cause ema= cs-25.1 manual almost Japanese a few English.

This not means that the manual is outdated, it means up-to-d= ate but not completely translated.

So, if distribution includes translated PO files instead of = translated texi files, and if=C2=A0 any process(make's installation or = maintainer's hand) generaate translated manual from these PO files, mai= ntain cost caused by future changes will be reduced, I think.

1) gettext and po4a are used by GNUnited Nations that handle= s GNU's websites internationalization.
See https://www.gnu.org/software/trans-coord/manual/gnun/gnun.html= #Concepts

2) I maintain translated PO files by GitHub.
See https://g= ithub.com/ayatakesi/emacs-25.1-doc-emacs

Thanks.
---
Ayanokoji Takesi <ayanokoj= i.takesi@gmail.com>

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