From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Takesi Ayanokoji Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: translation of Emacs manual into Japanese Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 07:03:31 +0900 Message-ID: References: <83oa37o2mu.fsf@gnu.org> <83eg42oi7g.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cdcdcfe6a21053daca5e0 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1475186665 20247 195.159.176.226 (29 Sep 2016 22:04:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 22:04:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 30 00:04:16 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1bpjR5-0003Qx-90 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 30 Sep 2016 00:04:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40539 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpjR3-00079S-PB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:04:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48235) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpjQW-000796-2d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:03:37 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpjQU-0006yh-OQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:03:36 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]:33308) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bpjQS-0006x2-Vn; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 18:03:33 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id r126so109744945oib.0; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:03:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=rXS/NhzTQ7iqSxi3S4kTf83VQGMixAP2VKWoHfSowk8=; b=XklOlB4x/kZguTwjSgROkzQPeFLSDq4rHPlyKibQ+67FFmuMztQF0pWt/Gt1mwXPsN 5l/ZR94eRoH+Qvfq+Vtryq2h93I9Yq4rzruVJJ2zHu2HfgxnswhxVJ/PNWq/G7MYUm/n hvWFhcItqgY8Z/9CqAHmBcGb0k1a5VK53j78ZmLpvhCXUmbXWDM7oz6VqqC5s/weC9yq 8+OTMYMlJKnTIp2PankGOUEOLuyPiRYV2fjrhWZZd5OarxbL+yurf+ngJpWtDWFvcD4Z H4SCNvL+dAntx6OXTOQnLAczvmG5i47T3Ume5d55M/Wx+gj8bhVolf519GhHMIHn3CZ9 d9cw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rXS/NhzTQ7iqSxi3S4kTf83VQGMixAP2VKWoHfSowk8=; b=lMeANAZvH+fJz53q2d5OwLG52BHJoWu78rUnulAYDiHbrbT2S2wkWz8KTklUy3cn+d QMsrZ/zuuLXMK4KkIbHmMHXK8eyqpaSGApsWpFoAW/LV3lDTDYnP3soyfPtjBBWPedJ1 Hwyzspt6uYI8orSIgB6D1esYYIYwJBtdvuoyxzHICi3Tb0BB6BTgTmgq1XsF59MY55KM J+PtEbjqTacgyLL9gUr2pVNAakybpfcku6PgEFumatvXsI7vzQqTaZ4MLIi1sIx9Zpvw NTkc3tuipA1Eq3DbikDaD80DfVcp9yAen2E32UEHvyjVDRkzLUEVgwzqDJU3mStcQjdP gr2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AA6/9Rks/FSDVgFaENICNLtXuo01USIcZZYC0imTr6JmuP2P20nhbObp1LjQN5ikH7K+/ihvLYhnfMRIimP52Q== X-Received: by 10.157.40.23 with SMTP id m23mr3005224otb.48.1475186612132; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.157.36.43 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.157.36.43 with HTTP; Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:03:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83eg42oi7g.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:207905 Archived-At: --001a113cdcdcfe6a21053daca5e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Of course I want to continue translation work in Emacs's future release ;-) Regards. --- Ayanokoji Takesi 2016/09/30 =E5=8D=88=E5=89=8D0:10 "Eli Zaretskii" : > > From: Takesi Ayanokoji > > Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:59:49 +0900 > > > > Instead, I extracted translatable string from emacs-24.5's texi to PO > files by using po4a utility, and then > > translate these PO file. > > After translation, I generate translated emacs-24.5's texi files from > original texis and translated PO file by using > > po4a utility again. > > > > Up to that, this was a heavy work for me because I translated over 600 > pages manual from nearly scratch. > > But after then, emacs-25.1 was released, updating translated manual was > easy. > > > > I extracted translatable string from emacs-25.1's texi to PO files by > using po4a utility, and then translate these > > PO file from emacs-24.5's translated PO files by using gettext's merge > utility. > > > > At this point, this merged emacs-25.1's PO files ware almost Japanese > but a few part that made changes in > > this release remain English. > > > > I translated untranslated part of PO files, and then generate Japanese > manual in fact. > > > > But if I did not translate these PO manually, this cause emacs-25.1 > manual almost Japanese a few English. > > > > This not means that the manual is outdated, it means up-to-date but not > completely translated. > > AFAIU, the technique you used makes every paragraph of the manual a PO > string, and then translates each such string. This, of course, avoids > translating the same text again for the next version, but it will > leave any changed paragraphs in their English form. With time, more > and more of the manual will become English if the translation is not > updated, so the danger of becoming outdated still exists, sort of. > > Thanks. > --001a113cdcdcfe6a21053daca5e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Of course I want to continue translation work in Emacs's= future release ;-)

Regards.
---
Ayanokoji Takesi <ayanokoj= i.takesi@gmail.com>


2016/09/30 =E5=8D= =88=E5=89=8D0:10 "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org>:
> From: Takesi Ayanokoji <ayanokoji.takesi@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:59:49 +0900
>
> Instead, I extracted translatable string from emacs-24.5's texi to= PO files by using po4a utility, and then
> translate these PO file.
> After translation, I generate translated emacs-24.5's texi files f= rom original texis and translated PO file by using
> po4a utility again.
>
> Up to that, this was a heavy work for me because I translated over 600= pages manual from nearly scratch.
> But after then, emacs-25.1 was released, updating translated manual wa= s easy.
>
> I extracted translatable string from emacs-25.1's texi to PO files= by using po4a utility, and then translate these
> PO file from emacs-24.5's translated PO files by using gettext'= ;s merge utility.
>
> At this point, this merged emacs-25.1's PO files ware almost Japan= ese but a few part that made changes in
> this release remain English.
>
> I translated untranslated part of PO files, and then generate Japanese= manual in fact.
>
> But if I did not translate these PO manually, this cause emacs-25.1 ma= nual almost Japanese a few English.
>
> This not means that the manual is outdated, it means up-to-date but no= t completely translated.

AFAIU, the technique you used makes every paragraph of the manual a PO
string, and then translates each such string.=C2=A0 This, of course, avoids=
translating the same text again for the next version, but it will
leave any changed paragraphs in their English form.=C2=A0 With time, more and more of the manual will become English if the translation is not
updated, so the danger of becoming outdated still exists, sort of.

Thanks.
--001a113cdcdcfe6a21053daca5e0--