From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Hackney Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 17:18:23 -0500 Message-ID: References: <50994EF8.5000109@yandex.ru> <83vcdh1iwc.fsf@gnu.org> <2B5C98417BC14B52A67BFAB62DBC8EF9@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba613b9ea727ce04ce0336f8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352413111 1961 80.91.229.3 (8 Nov 2012 22:18:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2012 22:18:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Adrian.B.Robert@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 08 23:18:40 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TWaQp-00051F-1a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:18:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39052 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWaQf-0003w0-Px for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:18:29 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:36358) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWaQd-0003vt-JW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:18:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWaQb-0006qn-F2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:18:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ia0-f169.google.com ([209.85.210.169]:44998) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TWaQb-0006qT-A9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 17:18:25 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ia0-f169.google.com with SMTP id h37so2841270iak.0 for ; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:18:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=haxney.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=j5DYcraay6ysr/PaTtF4k5M5EgAMMW8wXztbVJu4scw=; b=SHA2g27SJD2PzSa2Sf8S26Q4rjkhwAbCLeEosj+6w9vbwdhGeH4nixqX6OYrd59VaX 8cOXIA7q9w4oB8rnP7+5tnndglixFfHdlR1XWZlIs8XNTZh8CeolqnHnP9f4t031lRdT A9C58RqNHhUAsJM1T/WzRRNaD/h3cfeWk5n44= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=j5DYcraay6ysr/PaTtF4k5M5EgAMMW8wXztbVJu4scw=; b=aF0FWYytAeBpuiTJvRKqdR3oTjeq4R5AgRndBokgmnHoxOKCi2TOWlNCNKOpl4IDRa xGPdpXSnb/8t1EkvpdebJoviCgFXpoAEZhgvaSv8a1MHtFDR0VVNZin+nY3AgLeDqEIO gKKOCxbJp37PmNp9fM6Qtr9li5FMzygiAZYWJACfgOJ+LZHzNltiVbBMNHUiW6EXDVEq Cvt4agK6bpZzFe9+9Se5r84kxQUoq9Hscqt7FIGwmVJ/bx7ztSGVNtvJnK73HvmVV1Ff Tnueua2N1Q27QPhzXClSSWSeVq0aj3irb28hhZK/KtJxs2ZH0x1c2A5fNfFhA2vfvz5U TCAQ== Original-Received: by 10.42.39.199 with SMTP id i7mr8419079ice.55.1352413103990; Thu, 08 Nov 2012 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.64.0.110 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.64.0.110 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Nov 2012 14:18:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2B5C98417BC14B52A67BFAB62DBC8EF9@us.oracle.com> X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmi3ZAA50m95AOz1Y0Pp1+G7D6Mu9g9QpvZTUSpScFpEV/0MbP0AIfEbUbdcNChR/wPVzDu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 209.85.210.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154751 Archived-At: --90e6ba613b9ea727ce04ce0336f8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 "Drew Adams" wrote: > > Only veteran Emacs users know about that meaning of "page", > > Evidence for that claim? > > And what constitutes a "veteran"? Anyone who has ever used a command such as > `count-lines-page', `backward-page', `sort-pages', `narrow-to-page', > `what-page', or `ps-nb-pages-region'? Anyone who has ever customized an option > such as `page-delimiter', `ps-even-or-odd-pages', or `ps-selected-pages'? As a single data point: I've been using Emacs for 6 years and have written "a bunch" of elisp, and I've never noticed the backwards definition of up/down and have never used any of the aforementioned commands, nor any command or function which operates on ^L. I've seen ^L characters in elisp code before (though never in any other kind of file) and I know it is some kind of "section delimiter" but I never really saw the point of it. tl;dr: I wouldn't notice the absence of the ^L commands, and I think that bringing the scrolling motion commands into agreement with every other program would be great for newcomers. --90e6ba613b9ea727ce04ce0336f8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> wrote:
> > Only veteran Emacs users know about that meaning of "page&qu= ot;,
>
> Evidence for that claim?
>
> And what constitutes a "veteran"? =C2=A0Anyone who has ever = used a command such as
> `count-lines-page', `backward-page', `sort-pages', `narrow= -to-page',
> `what-page', or `ps-nb-pages-region'? =C2=A0Anyone who has eve= r customized an option
> such as `page-delimiter', `ps-even-or-odd-pages', or `ps-selec= ted-pages'?

As a single data point: I've been using Emacs for 6 year= s and have written "a bunch" of elisp, and I've never noticed= the backwards definition of up/down and have never used any of the aforeme= ntioned commands, nor any command or function which operates on ^L.

I've seen ^L characters in elisp code before (though nev= er in any other kind of file) and I know it is some kind of "section d= elimiter" but I never really saw the point of it.

tl;dr: I wouldn't notice the absence of the ^L commands,= and I think that bringing the scrolling motion commands into agreement wit= h every other program would be great for newcomers.

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