From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unboxed package manager Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 05:09:00 -0400 Message-ID: References: <57668895-8EEA-44F7-BD46-9CDFAA11FD2C@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca8b1705f75147e4" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38154"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel To: Yuan Fu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 20 10:09:55 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1peBWd-0009ni-4f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:09:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peBW1-0000Gv-V2; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 05:09:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peBW0-0000Gd-EO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 05:09:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x52e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1peBVy-0002Ts-DK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 05:09:15 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x52e.google.com with SMTP id d22so6179534pgw.2 for ; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 02:09:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; t=1679303352; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=nZ+BAjiUT4pS42XbC9MkRMtTrLmP2Zq2k9aItMGEMlk=; b=M7bbuVsPHP6fGWfvBD8fdaZXKEOlwl2op1ioakKStkt9PeBgL/hxof6UFoyUnh+/+n 9RjwoD1VxoBhypgZX9rJYn/mJ4NRv4t8nWtd1DDXH5+6yVl8HDCtyva0wH5W8LrngdY3 c1ON/3QU8GG34u/lC3m6VUQDleD2Cw4sMMa6p3PzP0sm3XD1Mv/4CYPu4qyKsGhPvI9c pgoshQzUWIHGOcWpF1FsUtA2+4FJxdXPjsAuTkW/8CouqH055oYtg3+RwHMwXL4okUPp 5cd/y3D+vMmQ19DXDvqvdy+P5EwWDrgr8DVHMplodTgOMeOmSoVKdiJoD+eXVifInSf2 HGFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; t=1679303352; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=nZ+BAjiUT4pS42XbC9MkRMtTrLmP2Zq2k9aItMGEMlk=; b=pgVvN7RisMg2A9LUWmedBKhKZGcx9gU2ZTmTIPeNkMnmWIJXN65akeRmz0xDkTRnny Uefjck2MGMqMzqWtUXsl+UBLkqs7b3pdhQqKNuEBBzoNlbNxU4IsgIFBlsqOx5wPwoEz cLU6ROHeCjs84sDPWZYUHPFsD6zGIzA0oZktx4HZuC7mbUsjRABShHQB+HuA0mdT/0hf xqpN07xGXHJJXrNHcGacZT6FIugKUbagkpglHhvEEEYxdvxuG9K6ttudlPOGlhvyxA03 ebeNCJVeIOwA/+lOOM6kDjPMTHK0MnpmbtoaSqI5oSsTeibUDuIo5fkeaah11mbD3Jhi OgvA== X-Gm-Message-State: AO0yUKWB/cJ+QGyqXepJLLnI1jC0oxtlNoTuzakjFLI40OvlHFNWDHfn rgTCaP4Mjh6IpUYT+VTRvWT5hSCfwTO/LDDVbmY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AK7set+oa2YhgGK7LCZQG4VhKKqTcDmDc5+mFu0L0dWqKi4WAjGZM7YS/BteT8rKIPxq3RCuJ/o6ctLa5gcTkRyvyvw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:1818:b0:626:1eb8:31d7 with SMTP id y24-20020a056a00181800b006261eb831d7mr5081208pfa.1.1679303352419; Mon, 20 Mar 2023 02:09:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::52e; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x52e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:304593 Archived-At: --000000000000ca8b1705f75147e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 4:55 AM Lynn Winebarger wrote: > On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:31 AM Yuan Fu wrote: > >> >> >> > On Mar 19, 2023, at 6:18 PM, Lynn Winebarger >> wrote: >> > >> > I've >> > done this manually on various systems I use with a significant >> > improvement in startup performance. >> >> It'll be interesting to see the numbers on the improvement. How much does >> it improve startup time if there is x packages and y are loaded at startup >> time? >> > > > Good question. The systems I've done this manually on are one-off builds > of 28.x on sandboxed systems where the system emacs is 24.3. So, I didn't > have to worry about managing package updates with any frequency. > I don't have any hard measurements, but my recollection is that installing ~1200 packages on those systems and "loading the world" took something like 5 minutes, while a similar set of packages installed in a unified directory takes about 1.5 minutes. Also, when set up with AOT native compiled libraries, the startup time was more like 15 minutes, or at least long enough for me to walk away, make coffee, drink the coffee slowly, and still find the startup in progress. The native libraries are in a cache directory, but they have to locate the source file and compute a checksum at load time, so the length of the load-path is still an issue.... Take those numbers with a container of salt though, since I did that last summer and took a big detour to effectively enable dumping all the packages as preloaded native-compiled libraries before going back and trying just working with the byte-compiled version in December. Lynn --000000000000ca8b1705f75147e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 4:55 AM Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 20, 2023, 2:31 = AM Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com> wrote:


> On Mar 19, 2023, at 6:18 PM, Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@g= mail.com> wrote:
>
> I've
> done this manually on various systems I use with a significant
> improvement in startup performance.

It'll be interesting to see the numbers on the improvement. How much do= es it improve startup time if there is x packages and y are loaded at start= up time?


Good question. The systems I've done this= manually on are one-off builds of 28.x on sandboxed systems where the syst= em emacs is 24.3.=C2=A0 So, I didn't have to worry about managing packa= ge updates with any frequency.=C2=A0=C2=A0

I= don't have any hard measurements, but my recollection is that installi= ng ~1200 packages on those systems and "loading the world" took s= omething like 5 minutes, while a similar set of packages installed in a uni= fied directory takes about 1.5 minutes.=C2=A0 Also, when set up with AOT na= tive compiled libraries, the startup time was more like 15 minutes, or at l= east long enough for me to walk away, make coffee, drink the coffee slowly,= and still find the startup in progress.=C2=A0 The native libraries are in = a cache directory, but they have to locate the source file and compute a ch= ecksum at load time, so the length of the load-path is still an issue....

Take those numbers with a= container of salt though, since I did that last summer and took a big deto= ur to effectively enable dumping all the packages as preloaded native-compi= led libraries before going back and trying just working with the byte-compi= led version in December.

Lynn

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