From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 12:53:11 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87fs3x6ge7.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cthmzl.fsf@dfreeman.email> <838r9pby47.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28506"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Yuan Fu , danny@dfreeman.email, joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 03 18:54:29 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qcqMn-0007Ae-8B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 18:54:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcqLq-0007x3-Fr; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:53:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcqLo-0007wZ-Bw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qcqLl-0003Pp-SQ; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id 5614622812f47-3a751d2e6ecso618312b6e.0; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:53:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693760003; x=1694364803; darn=gnu.org; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=5QsosqjmbToE7NaPOPDDSXg2+RWgqJtAktr9LEKTnPg=; b=BicONgJ+XvvSphtOC4EDlcO5xEIeq0wtMb31dgcNHH3KWlOkCvMRBt6I7qA0I4eIwY +TZZr69WObyOhRmozSKWSaYrtmC4dchWFn5lWWr6FpTIn8mdJXF3ZiXxfN5jkmxOxq5S M7tpqb+95WFCNLTCQJFzvo5XIdtnsziHrQ5Oi8ccJ5f6YQPgXX7T4RUgCZk24wJQSlrt l2QrIb7cjnHmqFb3beCYeTasnOMKO1z2nDHnt67rgvoZZZ76kaoYfqQeOIUThSBFCTug muFNYKufry52LQO0hpHmMMObe2Rf4yoLfLrLABEMNzSA3AbgbJlvUOolZAjpEwZp5UoC USTQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693760003; x=1694364803; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5QsosqjmbToE7NaPOPDDSXg2+RWgqJtAktr9LEKTnPg=; b=i9uI2t8pOd/QnCSXwYVKSo5eMWhNsXbXlln3vwYbnZFZXyO1pwIQNPepyqNsJlqVh/ 225MfBT4sYK2hVx/SaOEYlfLT/7mUkKLaUJ0oXdcsUlkAPB0OM/vMn+6cVb2/tFOhOw3 ogoyYyPPnUZ/SKr38UieTOtNuS1U5FIplj+b/JK9ts78BFlGtcGzpKVudOaDajsRxYSk 64C1dxVYGORZu7AW4UlEyPGbi+DW7ojPg7UXR0xsQP7nBgywvq1Dw2tVRY2VQk73jFqW AV0vbm3+FtE5g0GlR1kSJVPUkZsQ89I/cZuav7I6RBy3yVXAYPLqko8RpHDlaPSdXBc1 xkTw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzQweP4KfJg/bzZAQ1O5MEz9Hcq1mKU5NimyZoAR0PaAJPD2sLS 0T9wbwkXOKngIRI6ZcLqvg8BZC+qnyyIxDg7IwxG8rgheB4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHUj5lWq7cAtjQTZ/YbZNCTUr2Af7BSvH14qPasL0rulQVWbL7qZLB1p9dqGtlwVbkjCcSW5Uhib0n2K2nb0x0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6808:f16:b0:3a7:5611:a53b with SMTP id m22-20020a0568080f1600b003a75611a53bmr11842792oiw.0.1693760003317; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 09:53:23 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <838r9pby47.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::22e; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-oi1-x22e.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:310006 Archived-At: On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:30=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > From: Yuan Fu > > Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 10:10:27 -0700 > > Cc: Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora , > > Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , > > Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > > >> Of course the naming issue is real, > > > > > > Yes, I'm glad to see you acknowledge this as an issue. The naming iss= ue > > > is all I'm trying to speak to right now. > > > > From a nontechnical side, taking over a package name that has been arou= nd for 15 years, is very popular, is depended by thousands of Emacs users, = would leave a bad taste is the mouth for clojure-mode developers and users.= And it certainly wouldn=E2=80=99t help with the reputation of Emacs develo= pers being hard to approach. > > No one who speaks for the project suggested anything like that. It's > a non-issue. > So, does RMS not speak for the project? Am I misreading his message: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2023-08/msg01063.html ? To be clear, I am not advocating anything here other than recognizing the GNU emacs project's rights to use -mode as a library name based on that project's use of that naming pattern for 40 years. I don't think any external party should feel they have trademark-type rights over such a functional name. It would be better if there were some policy statement in the emacs or elisp manual regarding library and package naming practices, though. Especially with libraries in core being treated as packages by the built-in package system. Lynn