From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lynn Winebarger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 09:29:55 -0400 Message-ID: References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5uw9ivs.fsf@posteo.net> <87ttt42gna.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87zg2hsyrd.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87h6ontwfv.fsf@posteo.net> <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a9c01b06044c28dc" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27874"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= , emacs-devel To: Danny Freeman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 01 15:30:57 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qc4Ej-00073u-HM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 15:30:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc4E7-0003g1-BT; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:30:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc4E4-0003fm-0V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:30:17 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1029.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qc4Dx-0006zq-O0; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 09:30:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1029.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-27183f4ccc1so1391306a91.2; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 06:30:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1693575006; x=1694179806; darn=gnu.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=1qA6XbCpp5VQvmWOsm50BzV0FAJfNOBVdZGDz8NVe3k=; b=nmkybMXRY0fzNI/aUmBUbg4QfU4cf/0hOzl0A7hgZ3LFaBlD+vL9/Yx1mxtfZPKtXo rL9AjuDjml4FBE5X7LksdyPsraJNvcZ7X9MKqCwVmUxY9CgLGFMqf8GnaExgaGg6mX07 v5sS/+mPfbA2MjwHJcoTzeY1yaxy3Yhv74ZcLkRyO7/tviOLUtWaDdk63zEcVFIKZZda 2Y+Ia8zbMpynpknFOSwmgWDGb0bHORk0wAWzy+izhev+aAW+sBkifI7zOFJWZ1bpuWJ2 bOgOZpv68D1HPrix9RS7MlqREH0HJ/CLyzKsxprYtTNbJ6OZ0jg+MuYwmSF7BY4jj4sD szuA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1693575006; x=1694179806; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=1qA6XbCpp5VQvmWOsm50BzV0FAJfNOBVdZGDz8NVe3k=; b=JtoeBE18m7W/jd5RugVnA8WixkOey8cj/9qIO/3iqL7n7fzf+3uNVKiMFdszGs0bwK TK4RaDVUTKLJnEM/HNJdLXwhyurmyFdwHu25zYxAp4mWkkqpnkGvecnZAb4IZcqBGR0p RE5quFRI23J6Tg0nIY65lXw3g6GauGgByILDGb7vBIB48VZJ61wOpHCvK894piXR39oy 8c5ddCOEm91rohGV21o8uRsq41Lkl+1Ssir4N74MgfOesN98q0MKiaJ2AjaN7VbpIiOl eLKSMdRmTNepukYvgjiTbn3iI1DN4vQSp72gh4rThmc/9rIjuyxCXnLQSO9f4JFvtijP gYmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzUfSYx4RJTAsv9NKz/ZxuXTqQXS2z878NjU+aIjQXldQSpXbOY /2NWtjOGZSX8AdSwgyUA+AlYy35gO4u036PpuyU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGzF6fz6bR1nGbfAvqopkjVGWhGyKDoyCSXZXt+yQxqyUeCgMI0LfgpJ1W1m9KjUbfxaoyBYSDuyGMT6bsolmY= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:8a03:b0:263:ac11:c6d2 with SMTP id w3-20020a17090a8a0300b00263ac11c6d2mr2286392pjn.25.1693575006501; Fri, 01 Sep 2023 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029; envelope-from=owinebar@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1029.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309782 Archived-At: --000000000000a9c01b06044c28dc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:13 AM Danny Freeman wrote: > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > >> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:14:21 +0300 > >> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > >> From: Dmitry Gutov > >> > >> But we don't always agree between ourselves. Not on this subject anyway. > > > > Those disagreements are not relevant when the issue is the inclusion > > of a package in core. > > I'd like to think I have the best interests of Emacs at heart, both as > someone who has contributed a handful bug fixes to the core, as a > clojure developer in my day job, and as the maintainer of > clojure-ts-mode. > > With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing > mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for clojure files > somewhere else in this thread. However, I will advocate for not > hijacking the name clojure-mode that has been in active use for 15 > years. I don't think using the term "hijacking" is productive. The GNU emacs developers could well say that using a standard functional name like "clojure-mode" with no intent to contribute it to the core was the "hijacking", or perhaps namespace-squatting. It would be different for "cider" or another non-standard, nonfunctional name. It should have been obvious at the time clojure-mode was originally authored that the name would have been adopted for a builtin mode if there were going to be one. Lynn --000000000000a9c01b06044c28dc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 9:13 AM Danny Freeman <danny@dfreeman.= email> wrote:

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2023 12:14:21 +0300
>> Cc: rms@gnu.org, joaotavora@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org=
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
>>
>> But we don't always agree between ourselves. Not on this subje= ct anyway.
>
> Those disagreements are not relevant when the issue is the inclusion > of a package in core.

I'd like to think I have the best interests of Emacs at heart, both as<= br> someone who has contributed a handful bug fixes to the core, as a
clojure developer in my day job, and as the maintainer of
clojure-ts-mode.

With that in mind, I won't stand in the way of a new clojure editing mode for Emacs, in fact I suggested enabling lisp mode for clojure files somewhere else in this thread. However, I will advocate for not
hijacking the name clojure-mode that has been in active use for 15
years.

I don't think using the term "hijacking" is productive.=C2= =A0 The GNU emacs developers could well say that using a standard functiona= l name like "clojure-mode" with no intent to contribute it to the= core was the "hijacking", or perhaps namespace-squatting.=C2=A0 = It would be different for "cider" or another non-standard, nonfun= ctional name.=C2=A0 It should have been obvious at the time clojure-mode wa= s originally authored that the name would have been adopted for a builtin m= ode if there were going to be one.

Lynn



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