Very happy with emacs-25 so far

Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[John Wiegley]

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Hi guys,

I just wanted to say that this release is shaping up quite nicely. I've
switched to 25.0.92 as my "primary" Emacs on OS X since several days, and I'm
liking the new features.

Also, the Nextstep port seems to have progressed, since I'm experiencing none
of the speed issues that drove me to "Mac port" in the past.

So, just a quick note to say, great job! I'm looking forward to getting 25.1
release ready.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Bozhidar Batsov]

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Do we have some ETA on the final release?

On 10 March 2016 at 01:28, John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I just wanted to say that this release is shaping up quite nicely. I've
> switched to 25.0.92 as my "primary" Emacs on OS X since several days, and
> I'm
> liking the new features.
>
> Also, the Nextstep port seems to have progressed, since I'm experiencing
> none
> of the speed issues that drove me to "Mac port" in the past.
>
> So, just a quick note to say, great job! I'm looking forward to getting
> 25.1
> release ready.
>
> --
> John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
> http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2
>

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 19:45:29 +0200
> From: Bozhidar Batsov <bozhidar@batsov.com>
> 
> Do we have some ETA on the final release?

We won't have one, until we see some serious pouncing on bugs
mentioned in bug#19759, with the purpose of either fixing them, or
deciding that they shouldn't block the release.

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[John Wiegley]

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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Do we have some ETA on the final release?

> We won't have one, until we see some serious pouncing on bugs mentioned in
> bug#19759, with the purpose of either fixing them, or deciding that they
> shouldn't block the release.

Yes, I do have one: June 21. Nor am I willing to wait forever. If we arrive at
the summer and there are still a few outstanding issues, we may simply note
them in the release document, and make it an incentive to quickly release 25.2
afterward.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Cc: Bozhidar Batsov <bozhidar@batsov.com>,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 16:09:24 -0700
> 
> >> Do we have some ETA on the final release?
> 
> > We won't have one, until we see some serious pouncing on bugs mentioned in
> > bug#19759, with the purpose of either fixing them, or deciding that they
> > shouldn't block the release.
> 
> Yes, I do have one: June 21. Nor am I willing to wait forever. If we arrive at
> the summer and there are still a few outstanding issues, we may simply note
> them in the release document, and make it an incentive to quickly release 25.2
> afterward.

What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we
don't really mean that?

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we
> don't really mean that?

I think there can be disagreement about how blocking these blocking bugs
are.  From the current list:

New Emacs icon blurry in GNOME on Fedora
Support linking -ldl on Hurd
xwidget-webkit-scroll-behaviour = image is non-functional

etc.

Just reading over the list, they all seem like bugs that should be
fixed, but I'd say two thirds of them are bugs that we could live with
in Emacs 25.1.  Or four fifths.  And at the rate they're being fixed,
I'd guess the actual ratio is nine tenths.  :-)

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>,  bozhidar@batsov.com,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:34:19 +0100
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we
> > don't really mean that?
> 
> I think there can be disagreement about how blocking these blocking bugs
> are.

My point is that we should decide once which ones are blocking, and
then stick by that decision.

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Bozhidar Batsov]

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I agree. It seems this list is in need of cleanup.

On 20 March 2016 at 18:23, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org>
> > Cc: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>,  bozhidar@batsov.com,
> emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2016 11:34:19 +0100
> >
> > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> >
> > > What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we
> > > don't really mean that?
> >
> > I think there can be disagreement about how blocking these blocking bugs
> > are.
>
> My point is that we should decide once which ones are blocking, and
> then stick by that decision.
>

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[John Wiegley]

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>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we don't
> really mean that?

Marking a bug as blocking the release does not mean we won't release, because
this would put our release schedule in the hands of anyone capable of setting
such a mark.

What it does mean is: prior to cutting a release tarball, we will have
addressed each bug, where by "address" we mean:

  1. Fix it, or
  2. Defer it to 25.2, or
  3. Re-categorize as not really blocking

It sounds like several of our current "blockers" should not have been marked
such, so it looks like a bug review is in order. I'll put it on my schedule to
go through these and see which ones truly should not ship in 25.1.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Cc: bozhidar@batsov.com,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 10:52:09 -0700
> 
> > What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we don't
> > really mean that?
> 
> Marking a bug as blocking the release does not mean we won't release, because
> this would put our release schedule in the hands of anyone capable of setting
> such a mark.

We can unset it as easily as someone can set it.  And I don't think we
should consider this possibility, since it's very unlikely to happen.
The current marks are not done by someone as malicious as that.

> What it does mean is: prior to cutting a release tarball, we will have
> addressed each bug, where by "address" we mean:
> 
>   1. Fix it, or
>   2. Defer it to 25.2, or
>   3. Re-categorize as not really blocking

Fixing bugs might not be a 1-sec job, to say nothing of the need to
test the fixed version in yet another pretest.  So I wouldn't
recommend delaying that till just before the release.

> It sounds like several of our current "blockers" should not have been marked
> such, so it looks like a bug review is in order. I'll put it on my schedule to
> go through these and see which ones truly should not ship in 25.1.

That's exactly my point: we should decide _today_ which one are truly
blocking, and then make all the necessary effort, starting with
tomorrow, to fix those which are.

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Paul Eggert]

On 03/19/2016 08:35 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> What is the purpose of marking them as blocking the release if we
> don't really mean that?

The list of blockers is mostly Glenn's reaction to bug reports (and 
thanks, Glenn!) that is not much trimmed later (and is now too long) 
because we lack development resources. If it's to be useful, someone 
(probably John) needs to go over it more carefully and figure out what 
is *really* a blocker.

For example, I just now reviewed Bug#20931, which Glenn filed and marked 
as a blocker on June 29 of last year, and then later that day wrote 
"maybe I should just get used to it (I don't know if it's worth a NEWS 
entry)". This doesn't appear to be a blocker, so I just now unblocked 
it. (I don't view it as a bug at all, for what that's worth.)

I expect there's a reasonable amount of low-priority stuff like this 
that is unnecessarily bulking up our blocking-bugs list. Which part is 
low-priority is debatable, which is why the list needs to be prioritized 
somehow.

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[John Wiegley]

>>>>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Fixing bugs might not be a 1-sec job, to say nothing of the need to test the
> fixed version in yet another pretest. So I wouldn't recommend delaying that
> till just before the release.

I think we're just miscommunicating due to the lovely nature of e-mail. By
'prior to release' I just meant "in the time before release happens", which
could be much sooner than 1 second before. :)

I give you extra-special cookie points for every bug you fix in one second,
though.

>> It sounds like several of our current "blockers" should not have been
>> marked such, so it looks like a bug review is in order. I'll put it on my
>> schedule to go through these and see which ones truly should not ship in
>> 25.1.

> That's exactly my point: we should decide _today_ which one are truly
> blocking, and then make all the necessary effort, starting with tomorrow, to
> fix those which are.

Ok, can we say "decide by Friday" so that I don't curl up from stress and
implode into an x-ray emitting, black hole of worry on my office chair? I'm
almost done being sick from last week, which has weakened my resolve to
"carpe diem" today.

-- 
John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Nicolas Petton]

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John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:

> Ok, can we say "decide by Friday" so that I don't curl up from stress and
> implode into an x-ray emitting, black hole of worry on my office chair? I'm
> almost done being sick from last week, which has weakened my resolve to
> "carpe diem" today.

I will look at each one of them during the week and try to fix some.

Nico

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Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Michael Heerdegen]

John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com> writes:

> Ok, can we say "decide by Friday" so that I don't curl up from stress
> and implode into an x-ray emitting, black hole of worry on my office
> chair?

At least we can say that having turned into an x-ray emitting black hole
counts as sickness, too.

I think you should take the time you need.

Michael. 

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Paul Eggert]

On 03/21/2016 02:15 PM, John Wiegley wrote:
> Ok, can we say "decide by Friday" so that I don't curl up from stress and
> implode into an x-ray emitting, black hole of worry on my office chair?

Black holes don't emit X-rays, so I assume you meant that you and your 
chair would be an X-ray binary, with your remains accreting mass from 
your spaghettifying chair. This would definitely not be a good thing for 
the Emacs project. Let's by all means wait until Friday.

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Rostislav Svoboda]

I update all my packages (cider, helm, magit, evil, use-package, etc.)
and git-pull & compile the emacs-25 branch almost every day for more
than 3 or 4 months...
I had a very very few breakages and if I had any then git-checkout
<yesterday> & recompile + maybe
10 mins googling always solved the problem.

Great Thanks to all emacs-core and emacs-package developers & contributors!

Bost


2016-03-10 0:28 GMT+01:00 John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>:
> Hi guys,
>
> I just wanted to say that this release is shaping up quite nicely. I've
> switched to 25.0.92 as my "primary" Emacs on OS X since several days, and I'm
> liking the new features.
>
> Also, the Nextstep port seems to have progressed, since I'm experiencing none
> of the speed issues that drove me to "Mac port" in the past.
>
> So, just a quick note to say, great job! I'm looking forward to getting 25.1
> release ready.
>
> --
> John Wiegley                  GPG fingerprint = 4710 CF98 AF9B 327B B80F
> http://newartisans.com                          60E1 46C4 BD1A 7AC1 4BA2

Re: Very happy with emacs-25 so far

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: John Wiegley <jwiegley@gmail.com>
> Cc: bozhidar@batsov.com,  emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 14:15:49 -0700
> 
> > That's exactly my point: we should decide _today_ which one are truly
> > blocking, and then make all the necessary effort, starting with tomorrow, to
> > fix those which are.
> 
> Ok, can we say "decide by Friday" so that I don't curl up from stress and
> implode into an x-ray emitting, black hole of worry on my office chair?

Friday is indistinguishable from "today".