From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bozhidar Batsov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Mac port Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:35:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87bn9a8an8.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <87wprxfkvx.fsf@gmx.us> <568622AA.2000805@dancol.org> <615CB17D-3C40-477F-B576-3C3250C15202@gmail.com> <56862EFA.7020907@dancol.org> <87bn95p72f.fsf@acer.localhost.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ec962fce1d105284adebc X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451676926 29319 80.91.229.3 (1 Jan 2016 19:35:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Jan 2016 19:35:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Daniel Colascione , emacs-devel , Jean-Christophe Helary To: Ingo Lohmar Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 01 20:35:25 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aF5Tx-0008CF-0J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 20:35:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36569 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF5Tw-0008PO-1X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:35:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52454) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF5Tr-0008PI-PI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:35:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF5Tq-0002Mj-CG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:35:19 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-io0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236]:36101) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF5Tq-0002MZ-3X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 14:35:18 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-io0-x236.google.com with SMTP id o67so393360331iof.3 for ; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tevFJFl9G7W06SU4AytoY5j8m2GRSHMBAgz2VVxz+/8=; b=seFoNEKojNdOhYRVOdZhKIPB4lrsf9OmPfmZEQr4Leqi7Un7B2Aatuku5LaxBUtdjP p4VEqVFTd8xqfdziPuH/KYeNkzFc5ZK8GfjL95a5p84S7KrxCwCovw+7jTgxrWzDeJD8 u+2+u3hruMUGU+dYrRI4cfHjGVDJOmlkGwWjJpHMUPAtANmewynhWRbuxGQQZbY8/mXz QE3B+iHKdvjkP74rF1oA19uJ1aE3IqCTi6pvvXB6xp4+XSarvJ+znHh6pHEbQ4GjBke6 5agqVCJQLqJsGGt3l0YaN+uIvF3vxYEoicwBtlsYM3/tW0P2LbN2oueS1kAwe/mnXdeC Gyxg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=batsov-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=tevFJFl9G7W06SU4AytoY5j8m2GRSHMBAgz2VVxz+/8=; b=KskvmoGOYr3IFlZAMtyaRnXDSAir8QAx6ec4XCi7+zKfkXQRg9bhzbSTsng9uEIQM4 Sx01DKMfIp+m+OgKrWeH9ryrW2yRb/qwkyAkcnfaUgn5URWzXrA6hbpoBZwGVKa8aJBz 4lcX2icypeU4JorHOQ9AAaLENw6s7KX4rLqr+dIj3hOpTVOAOc57NDUC4pLIWap8AYto BEHSl1QSEj3kKOPBy6pu5AIevRQdqf4pDnsCX3XWk1N7W9SPykWRRIcLMhBMZ3CMwSK5 0JjwT/eQna6LuRO1uvON1PwNyFBtDjWOyy1NLyhfyF0mN1SrmXypUHJlFmqOOVV8mbvS UnUA== X-Received: by 10.107.136.226 with SMTP id s95mr27638646ioi.38.1451676917347; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 11:35:17 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.107.6.232 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jan 2016 11:35:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87bn95p72f.fsf@acer.localhost.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 3wBTsyseSQ5gyUwmRpG0jIpsass X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c06::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197316 Archived-At: --001a113ec962fce1d105284adebc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I feel this discussion went in the wrong direction. Let's just focus on how much of the Emacs Mac port can we merge into GNU Emacs. It's clear at this point we can't get all the functionality in, but I'd still take every improvement that I can. On 1 January 2016 at 17:01, Ingo Lohmar wrote: > On Thu, Dec 31 2015 23:47 (-0800), Daniel Colascione wrote: > > > On 12/31/2015 11:36 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > >> > >>> On Jan 1, 2016, at 15:54, Daniel Colascione wrote: > >>> > >>> I probably shouldn't point this out, but Emacs on OS X already supports > >>> invoking AppleScript. There's no GNU/Linux equivalent. Quelle horreur! > >> > >> That's an external mode for users to install. > > > > No it isn't. Grep for ns-do-applescript. > > > > To my knowledge, calling external AppleScript does not make anything > possible or easy that is not easy to do using other means (external > scripts) on GNU/Linux. > > >>> Do you even care that your strategy hasn't been working? > >> > >> Emacs has been around longer than a huge amount of software and is > bound to stay for a long time and outlive most of the editors that exist > today. So it's hard to demonstrate that the "strategy" is not working. In > fact, as was pointed earlier in this thread, a huge lot of Emacs users use > it within OSX and *not* for it's ability to display emojis... > > > > Let's talk about how keeping features out of GCC led to the total defeat > > of Clang. > > Firstly, you are switching the example from Emacs to GCC simply because > it suits your argument. What "works" in one instance might not work in > another one, of course. > > More importantly, you imply that the "total defeat of Clang" is the goal > of the GNU project and GCC in particular (presumably, something along > those lines is what you mean when you say a strategy "works" or does not > "work"). I do not speak for the project or for anybody else, but if you > read up on just the few most fundamental essays on/of the free software > movement, it should become very clear that this is completely besides > the point (and would be more closely in line with the "open source" > point of view). > > --001a113ec962fce1d105284adebc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I feel this discussion went in the wrong direction. Let= 9;s just focus on how much of the Emacs Mac port can we merge into GNU Emac= s. It's clear at this point we can't get all the functionality in, = but I'd still take every improvement that I can.=C2=A0

On 1 January 2016 at 17:01,= Ingo Lohmar <i.lohmar@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Dec 31 2015 23:47 (-0800), Daniel = Colascione wrote:

> On 12/31/2015 11:36 PM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2016, at 15:54, Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I probably shouldn't point this out, but Emacs on OS X alr= eady supports
>>> invoking AppleScript. There's no GNU/Linux equivalent. Que= lle horreur!
>>
>> That's an external mode for users to install.
>
> No it isn't. Grep for ns-do-applescript.
>

To my knowledge, calling external AppleScript does not make anything=
possible or easy that is not easy to do using other means (external
scripts) on GNU/Linux.

>>> Do you even care that your strategy hasn't been working? >>
>> Emacs has been around longer than a huge amount of software and is= bound to stay for a long time and outlive most of the editors that exist t= oday. So it's hard to demonstrate that the "strategy" is not = working. In fact, as was pointed earlier in this thread, a huge lot of Emac= s users use it within OSX and *not* for it's ability to display emojis.= ..
>
> Let's talk about how keeping features out of GCC led to the total = defeat
> of Clang.

Firstly, you are switching the example from Emacs to GCC simply beca= use
it suits your argument.=C2=A0 What "works" in one instance might = not work in
another one, of course.

More importantly, you imply that the "total defeat of Clang" is t= he goal
of the GNU project and GCC in particular (presumably, something along
those lines is what you mean when you say a strategy "works" or d= oes not
"work").=C2=A0 I do not speak for the project or for anybody else= , but if you
read up on just the few most fundamental essays on/of the free software
movement, it should become very clear that this is completely besides
the point (and would be more closely in line with the "open source&quo= t;
point of view).


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