From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Andrew Hyatt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 00:06:20 -0400 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d142110602759a6d" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8954"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 09 06:07:19 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qTaTd-00025T-H4 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 06:07:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTaT1-0003c4-S5; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 00:06:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTaSz-0003bh-VL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 00:06:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTaSx-0006bq-Rs; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 00:06:37 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5234f2c6c1dso687372a12.1; Tue, 08 Aug 2023 21:06:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1691553992; x=1692158792; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=/atmp9iyLTA8b3iaHXnwzLHCKNyHeIiVxfW+9zeJW/8=; b=ckFAOWL0sTF7SAu0jjXjSnNq/GiINse6G3MYad2i7gTdEgU6TyTQD96+0JKKb/Zcrl rQ7KVXIKYECmci04vXvhAHAuz0Q2iziwynfFcbel0cbmAq9pFBQDYgoBEaqLUL50cuwS 37XNJc4d7+jzgAclbhVdDSpHUGUxH7++9mSTdj5BN7mr9Xk9g/idHzV/jJ+Sxqt3L0Xo m7CvIVWQDITYQU2/zwcCHlLA+5P5DGBFattiCRXsNcFCRKrUyByvEiBDyJAuCOMP0pVN OPi1c1gOaiSgbznAu5EkO1kBU4gDkEiedb6aanqcxpTU4SSHZUhb5BIIqscssSZwk6um 0UaQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1691553992; x=1692158792; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=/atmp9iyLTA8b3iaHXnwzLHCKNyHeIiVxfW+9zeJW/8=; b=iBKp7o/GVXXNUkTjz95bwt3xq0vl7rKYvrO0JdBEpBgMzfc9yhzobxM/w2H4LI5uqa AWBGi4P1oT0hBhWSSotLRj/zbsk9c8jrjJ2AUBzCbFmpy7dozU/Xawyv9YeuWOGhq4Jt ln2yscghErzpZ9u3+XxHpqRUkRnx5LnMrSh5bOjHanOqPO+Kbqp9bfNI94EnMWG3SW/r Qx3tUo6tjm24+f5huVVo/sawyXHUIRd5aglX9WGF58JgyadvTiJvdizb7d2FQ1aJjGbJ X3Mq6wK56cizZFhk53bEslMX9g7AvK0uLrL/IAvbzaLBjxBDdBfqP1cm6F4+zLTLz1N+ XOSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxaq2MeNvlpcS3dsyOHh2SF3VH5nudjMNz59vmPLD1G+CydAnIg HTlKF/9S0iVJ7HJKkE5RjJFwDC2lxai89gBLlGAj21de X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGet8vGr4xnPrkWkb8pj0QB5YvRIvdp5jc7/50dkiLIDVWwQMyRKQDNy4P0fi4jRdm/gx6vOQM0bkUiqqGs7fE= X-Received: by 2002:a50:ed13:0:b0:522:2955:8673 with SMTP id j19-20020a50ed13000000b0052229558673mr1259873eds.7.1691553992090; Tue, 08 Aug 2023 21:06:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52c; envelope-from=ahyatt@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308453 Archived-At: --000000000000d142110602759a6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 11:47=E2=80=AFPM Richard Stallman wrot= e: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > I've created a new package called llm, for the purpose of abstracting > the > > interface to various large language model providers. > > Note that packages in core Emacs or in GNU ELPA > should not depend on anything in NonGNU ELPA. > If llm is meant for other packages to use, > it should be in GNU ELPA, not NonGNU ELPA. > > Why did you plan to put it in NonGNU ELPA? The logic was the same logic you quote below (I'll explain better what my point was below), but I agree that it would limit the use, so GNU ELPA makes more sense. Another factor was that I am using request.el, which is not in GNU ELPA, so I'd have to rewrite it, which complicates the code. > > > I prefer that this is NonGNU, because I suspect people would like to > > contribute interfaces to different LLM, and not all of them will have > FSF > > papers. > > I don't follow the logic here. It looks like the llm package is > intended to be generic, so it would be used by other packages to > implementr support for specific models. If llm package is on GNU ELPA, > it can be used from packages no matter how those packages are distributed= . > It wasn't about use, it's more about accepting significant code contributions, which is less restricted with NonGNU ELPA, since I wouldn't have to ask for FSF papers. > > But if the llm package is in NonGNU ELPA, it can only be used from packag= es > in NonGNU ELPA. > > Have I misunderstood the intended design? > You understood correctly. This is a package designed to be used as a library from other packages. > > > > > -- > Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org) > Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org) > Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org) > Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org) > > > --000000000000d142110602759a6d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 11:47=E2=80=AFPM R= ichard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> wrot= e:
[[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consid= er=C2=A0 =C2=A0 ]]]
[[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies,=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0]]]
[[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]]<= br>
=C2=A0 > I've created a new package called llm, for the purpose of a= bstracting the
=C2=A0 > interface to various large language model providers.

Note that packages in core Emacs or in GNU ELPA
should not depend on anything in NonGNU ELPA.
If llm is meant for other packages to use,
it should be in GNU ELPA, not NonGNU ELPA.

Why did you plan to put it in NonGNU ELPA?

= The logic was the same logic you quote below (I'll explain better what = my point was below), but I agree that it would limit the use, so GNU ELPA m= akes more sense.=C2=A0 Another factor was that I am using request.el, which= is not in GNU ELPA, so I'd have to rewrite it, which complicates the c= ode.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0 > I prefer that this is NonGNU, because I suspect people would li= ke to
=C2=A0 > contribute interfaces to different LLM, and not all of them wil= l have FSF
=C2=A0 > papers.

I don't follow the logic here.=C2=A0 It looks like the llm package is intended to be generic, so it would be used by other packages to
implementr support for specific models.=C2=A0 If llm package is on GNU ELPA= ,
it can be used from packages no matter how those packages are distributed.<= br>

It wasn't about use, it's more = about accepting significant code contributions, which is less restricted wi= th NonGNU ELPA, since I wouldn't have to ask for FSF papers.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

But if the llm package is in NonGNU ELPA, it can only be used from packages=
in NonGNU ELPA.

Have I misunderstood the intended design?

You understood correctly.=C2=A0 This is a package designed to be used as= a library from other packages.=C2=A0




--
Dr Richard Stallman (https://stallman.org)
Chief GNUisance of the GNU Project (https://gnu.org)
Founder, Free Software Foundation (https://fsf.org)
Internet Hall-of-Famer (https://internethalloffame.org)


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