From: Andrew Hyatt <ahyatt@gmail.com>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-tangents@gnu.org, jporterbugs@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Is ChatGTP SaaSS? (was: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm)
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2023 12:59:26 -0400 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAM6wYYJTwNsVZHPXfK3n792os+qGFgHge+stVo7KHf8AaYgP7A@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87a5tzsbvl.fsf@localhost>
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On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 8:50 AM Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net> wrote:
> [ Moving this to emacs-tangents ]
>
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
>
> > > > As for LLMs that run on servers, they are a different issue
> entirely.
> > > > They are all SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute), and SaaSS is
> > > > always unjust.
> > > >
> > > > See
> https://gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
> > > > for explanation.
> >
> > > I do not fully agree here. A number of more powerful LLMs have very
> > > limiting hardware requirements. For example, some LLMs require
> 64+Gbs of
> > > RAM to run:
> >
> > That is true, and it is unfortunate. There may be no practical way
> > to run a certain model except for SaaSS.
> >
> > That does not alter the injustice of SaaSS. So we should not silence
> > our criticism of SaaSS in those cases,
>
> This is a rather theoretical consideration, but, talking about ChatGTP
> (owned by OpenAI) specifically, should it even be considered SaaSS?
>
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.html
> says:
>
> Using a joint project's servers isn't SaaSS because the computing
> you do in this way isn't your own. For instance, if you edit pages
> on Wikipedia, you are not doing your own computing; rather, you are
> collaborating in Wikipedia's computing. Wikipedia controls its own
> servers, but organizations as well as individuals encounter the
> problem of SaaSS if they do their computing in someone else's
> server.
>
> Then, ChatGTP is using the user input to train their model:
>
> https://techunwrapped.com/you-can-now-make-chatgpt-not-train-with-your-queries/
>
> ... what is constant is that the company can use
> our conversations with ChatGPT to train the model. This is not a
> surprise or a secret, the company has always reported it.
>
> There is no doubt that ChatGTP itself is not libre - its model is not
> available to public. However, users of the ChatGPT model are technically
> providing input that is collaboratively editing that model weights
> (training the model further). So, using ChatGTP is a little bit akin
> editing Wikipedia pages - collaborating to improve ChatGTP.
>
In addition, you can pay money to train your own model (via fine-tuning) on
top of Open AI's model. Most other providers also let you do this. The
model is "yours", and the training is controlled by you with no
restrictions I know of. You can't separate it from the underlying model
(for technical reasons). I don't know the legal aspects of restrictions on
using your own fine-tuned model, but you still access it via SaaSS.
>
> --
> Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
> Org mode contributor,
> Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
> Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
> or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>
>
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-09-06 16:59 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 68+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-08-07 23:54 [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-08 5:42 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-08 15:08 ` Spencer Baugh
2023-08-08 15:09 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-09 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-09 4:37 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-13 1:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-13 1:43 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-13 2:11 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-08-15 5:14 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-15 17:12 ` Jim Porter
2023-08-17 2:02 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-17 2:48 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-19 1:51 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-19 9:08 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-21 1:12 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-21 8:26 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-17 17:08 ` Daniel Fleischer
2023-08-19 1:49 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-19 8:15 ` Daniel Fleischer
2023-08-21 1:12 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-21 4:48 ` Jim Porter
2023-08-21 5:12 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-21 6:03 ` Jim Porter
2023-08-21 6:36 ` Daniel Fleischer
2023-08-22 1:06 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-16 2:30 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-16 5:11 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2023-08-18 2:10 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-27 1:07 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-27 13:11 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-08-28 1:31 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-28 2:32 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-28 2:59 ` Jim Porter
2023-08-28 4:54 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-31 2:10 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-31 9:06 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-08-31 16:29 ` chad
2023-09-01 9:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-04 1:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 1:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 12:25 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 12:51 ` Is ChatGTP SaaSS? (was: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm) Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-06 16:59 ` Andrew Hyatt [this message]
2023-09-09 0:37 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-06 22:52 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-07 7:28 ` Lucien Cartier-Tilet
2023-09-07 7:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2023-09-09 0:38 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-09 10:28 ` Collaborative training of Libre LLMs (was: Is ChatGTP SaaSS? (was: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm)) Ihor Radchenko
2023-09-09 11:19 ` Jean Louis
2023-09-10 0:22 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-10 2:18 ` Debanjum Singh Solanky
2023-08-27 18:36 ` [NonGNU ELPA] New package: llm Jim Porter
2023-08-28 0:19 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-09-04 1:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-04 5:18 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-09-07 1:21 ` Richard Stallman
2023-09-12 4:54 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-09-12 9:57 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-09-12 15:05 ` Stefan Kangas
2023-09-19 16:26 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-09-19 16:34 ` Philip Kaludercic
2023-09-19 18:19 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-09-04 1:27 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-09 3:47 ` Richard Stallman
2023-08-09 4:06 ` Andrew Hyatt
2023-08-12 2:44 ` Richard Stallman
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