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* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
@ 2013-11-01  6:51 Thierry Volpiatto
  2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
  2016-06-26 16:39 ` Noam Postavsky
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Thierry Volpiatto @ 2013-11-01  6:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 15777


Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
etc...)

Please reenable this.



In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 2.24.10)
 of 2013-10-30 on dell-14z
Windowing system distributor `The X.Org Foundation', version 11.0.11103000
System Description:	Ubuntu 12.04.3 LTS

Important settings:
  value of $LC_MONETARY: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LC_NUMERIC: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LC_TIME: fr_FR.UTF-8
  value of $LANG: fr_FR.UTF-8
  locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
  default enable-multibyte-characters: t

Major mode: Emacs-Lisp

Minor modes in effect:
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  recentf-mode: t
  git-gutter-mode: t
  psession-mode: t
  golden-ratio-mode: t
  winner-mode: t
  global-undo-tree-mode: t
  undo-tree-mode: t
  auto-image-file-mode: t
  eldoc-in-minibuffer-mode: t
  show-paren-mode: t
  display-time-mode: t
  savehist-mode: t
  eldoc-mode: t
  minibuffer-depth-indicate-mode: t
  helm-mode: t
  helm-descbinds-mode: t
  shell-dirtrack-mode: t
  helm-adaptative-mode: t
  helm-match-plugin-mode: t
  helm-occur-match-plugin-mode: t
  tooltip-mode: t
  file-name-shadow-mode: t
  global-font-lock-mode: t
  font-lock-mode: t
  auto-composition-mode: t
  auto-encryption-mode: t
  auto-compression-mode: t
  column-number-mode: t
  line-number-mode: t
  transient-mark-mode: t

Recent input:
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <down> 
C-z <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <up> <up> <up> <up> 
<up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> <up> C-g <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> C-s 
c o p y SPC f i l e <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <right> <left> <down> <down> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> C-s C-w C-w C-w C-w C-w 
<right> <left> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> <right> 
<right> <right> <up> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> <left> 
<left> <left> <left> <left> C-s C-w C-w C-w C-w <right> 
<left> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<up> <up> <down> <up> <up> C-x C-b m o d e C-s r e 
a d - f i l e - n a m e <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <right> <left> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> 
<down> <down> <down> <down> <down> <down> M-x r e p 
o r t <down> <down> <return>

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helm-external helm-utils dired compile helm-locate helm helm-config
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eieio-core gnus-util mm-util mail-prsvr password-cache info cl-macs gv
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help-fns ob-tangle ob-ref ob-lob ob-table org-footnote org-src ob-comint
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ob-emacs-lisp ob org-compat org-macs ob-eval org-loaddefs format-spec
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cl-loaddefs cl-lib tooltip ediff-hook vc-hooks lisp-float-type mwheel
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tai-viet lao korean japanese hebrew greek romanian slovak czech european
ethiopic indian cyrillic chinese case-table epa-hook jka-cmpr-hook help
simple abbrev minibuffer nadvice loaddefs button faces cus-face macroexp
files text-properties overlay sha1 md5 base64 format env code-pages mule
custom widget hashtable-print-readable backquote make-network-process
dbusbind gfilenotify dynamic-setting system-font-setting
font-render-setting move-toolbar gtk x-toolkit x multi-tty emacs)

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01  6:51 bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked Thierry Volpiatto
@ 2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
  2013-11-01 15:19   ` Drew Adams
  2013-11-01 18:07   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  2016-06-26 16:39 ` Noam Postavsky
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-11-01 12:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thierry Volpiatto; +Cc: 15777

> Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
> etc...)

That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2013-11-01 15:19   ` Drew Adams
  2013-11-01 18:07   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-11-01 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier, Thierry Volpiatto; +Cc: 15777

> > Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop,
> > defun* etc...)
> 
> That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
> Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.

Misguided, IMHO.  Plenty of people will use Emacs 24.4 (and 25 and
26...) with packages that work also with older versions, and thus
sometimes employ `cl.el' functions (even in addition to `cl-lib.el'
functions).

*Encourage* use of `cl-lib.el' (be positive).  Do not downgrade
Emacs just to make the point that `cl-lib.el' now exists.

Please try to look beyond the snapshot that is the latest nifty
Emacs development to the wider world of Emacs _users_.  There is
no reason to gratuitously make their experience worse.  You gain
nothing by that, and they (and Emacs) lose.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
  2013-11-01 15:19   ` Drew Adams
@ 2013-11-01 18:07   ` Thierry Volpiatto
  2013-11-01 19:22     ` Stefan Monnier
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Thierry Volpiatto @ 2013-11-01 18:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 15777

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:

>> Hi, symbols from cl package are no more fontlocked, (e.g loop, defun*
>> etc...)
>
> That's on purpose, because we want to discourage their use.
> Symbols from cl-lib are font-locked.

I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial and a lot of
applications are still using cl.
What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
remember that many people are using emacs just because there is external
libraries.

BTW I have started a branch with cl-lib+lexical-binding, it is a lot of
work and will not be ready soon.
I still want my current branchs to be fontlocked correctly.
Of course I can switch to emacs-24.3, but IMO it is not fair to disable
cl features.

Thanks for your understanding.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01 18:07   ` Thierry Volpiatto
@ 2013-11-01 19:22     ` Stefan Monnier
  2013-11-01 19:33       ` Drew Adams
  2013-11-02  9:01       ` Thierry Volpiatto
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-11-01 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thierry Volpiatto; +Cc: 15777

> I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial

Then we should try and reduce the effort needed.  My experience with
converting most of Emacs's own code to use cl-lib was rather
straightforward: remove the (require 'cl), byte-compile, look at the
output for complaints about unknown functions, search&replace
those names.

> and a lot of applications are still using cl.

I know, which is why `cl' is still fully supported and will remain that
way for a little while.

> What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
> remember that many people are using emacs just because there is external
> libraries.

We're only talking about the color given to symbols like defun*
and loop.  It doesn't seem like that should discourage
external libraries.


        Stefan


PS: the set of macros that are highlighted could/should be determined
dynamically, so that your own local macros can also be highlighted with
the `keyword' face.  I'd welcome a patch that does that, and most likely
such a patch would automatically highlight `loop' when cl.el is loaded.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01 19:22     ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2013-11-01 19:33       ` Drew Adams
  2013-11-02  9:01       ` Thierry Volpiatto
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-11-01 19:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier, Thierry Volpiatto; +Cc: 15777

> > What you are discouraging is maintaining external elisp libraries,
> > remember that many people are using emacs just because there is
> > external libraries.
> 
> We're only talking about the color given to symbols like defun*
> and loop.  It doesn't seem like that should discourage
> external libraries.

This is silly.  If such symbols are present then it helps users
to highlight them.

You don't want the symbols to be present.  Fine.  That's a
different issue.  Not font-locking them when they are present
does not help that aim.

It only hurts users, making their code less readable and so more
difficult to work with.  It does not help you or Emacs in any way.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01 19:22     ` Stefan Monnier
  2013-11-01 19:33       ` Drew Adams
@ 2013-11-02  9:01       ` Thierry Volpiatto
  2013-11-02 15:11         ` Drew Adams
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Thierry Volpiatto @ 2013-11-02  9:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 15777

Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> writes:

>> I am sorry, but moving to cl-lib is not trivial
>
> Then we should try and reduce the effort needed.  My experience with
> converting most of Emacs's own code to use cl-lib was rather
> straightforward: remove the (require 'cl), byte-compile, look at the
> output for complaints about unknown functions, search&replace
> those names.

You know this is only the emerged part of iceberg.
Switching to cl-lib imply switching to lexical-binding which is not as
simple as replacing prefixes in symbols.

-- 
Thierry
Get my Gnupg key:
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 59F29997 





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-02  9:01       ` Thierry Volpiatto
@ 2013-11-02 15:11         ` Drew Adams
  2013-11-03  1:04           ` Stefan Monnier
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-11-02 15:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Thierry Volpiatto, Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 15777

The font-locking of cl stuff belongs, whenever that stuff
is still used - for whatever reason it might be used.

If you want to move this old cl-specific font-locking to
the "deprecated" cl code files, so that it is not mixed
in with the general font-locking code, that would be OK.

(Haven't checked - maybe this is already the case, in
which case the regression is even more easily reversed.)

The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
whether or not that code is still being promoted or
recommended.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-02 15:11         ` Drew Adams
@ 2013-11-03  1:04           ` Stefan Monnier
  2013-11-03  6:32             ` Drew Adams
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2013-11-03  1:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 15777, Thierry Volpiatto

> The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
> whether or not that code is still being promoted or
> recommended.

I already pointed out what kind of patch I would accept which would
provide the behavior you want.  Not sure why you keep on ranting instead
of starting to hack.


        Stefan





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-03  1:04           ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2013-11-03  6:32             ` Drew Adams
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2013-11-03  6:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: 15777, Thierry Volpiatto

> > The point is that code that needs it still needs it,
> > whether or not that code is still being promoted or
> > recommended.
> 
> I already pointed out what kind of patch I would accept
> which would provide the behavior you want.  Not sure why
> you keep on ranting instead of starting to hack.

What you broke has been brought to your attention.  And why
it should be fixed has been pointed out.  Now DTRT.  Or not.





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked
  2013-11-01  6:51 bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked Thierry Volpiatto
  2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2016-06-26 16:39 ` Noam Postavsky
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Noam Postavsky @ 2016-06-26 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: 15777-done

Version: 25.1

In Emacs 25, all macros have font-lock-keyword-face





^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2016-06-26 16:39 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-11-01  6:51 bug#15777: 24.3.50; cl symbols are no more fontlocked Thierry Volpiatto
2013-11-01 12:58 ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-01 15:19   ` Drew Adams
2013-11-01 18:07   ` Thierry Volpiatto
2013-11-01 19:22     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-01 19:33       ` Drew Adams
2013-11-02  9:01       ` Thierry Volpiatto
2013-11-02 15:11         ` Drew Adams
2013-11-03  1:04           ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-03  6:32             ` Drew Adams
2016-06-26 16:39 ` Noam Postavsky

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