From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Noam Postavsky Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Accessor functions vs nth (WAS: Decoded time accessors) Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2019 20:12:04 -0400 Message-ID: References: <20190707214326.GD4053@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="105969"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Emacs developers To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 09 02:12:30 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hkdkD-000RRz-Kf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Jul 2019 02:12:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45788 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hkdkC-0005qP-5w for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:12:28 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45202) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hkdk6-0005qI-Vq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:12:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hkdk5-0002Ee-NK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:12:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi1-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::22e]:43621) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hkdk5-0002EK-Gn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:12:21 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id w79so14049178oif.10 for ; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 17:12:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Y3CrPluKUELnwv5+u1lXdnl2bZkEdctwoUb6FZghk6U=; b=F2EkxHSs/YOY0eLLfB0VKSNCcyEzb+uSaVZR9IIB7NO1HBrm2lsxEL7uAMkFcIEtc/ jgK0s9cqtSvq4580ux6TT+jzzbjNtIB1nzgTXAkE0wZ+yWiJmtb6OlArNBthGgw+aqax Ssdz9Il2pwmAvvfU+7amydUJ3S3SaKXGmTKa8PU0/AcI5G0vRO7U/tfOqflytIpiVqzE fHxUI1lyqXRJ1L+aweRdGKvrBxCbDTSHSDGB3OKUSKLC+5X8bPRzTkqvA+QQfN5FNmcT 5QhIdenH3AlyVk6gI1qpd1EmBC1gWznjlHzTk7XS6k7gC+bSx8PBv90BkMcDplNDgTWF 21Qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Y3CrPluKUELnwv5+u1lXdnl2bZkEdctwoUb6FZghk6U=; b=AS9KRjl+o1Vcwb5Z+YmBs4QwQ525iXctfRn//qjd5Y8hQyna/4LiD0M5P5h4gf5APn mV96+9yhgka8ReaYAqWsc3oWCohJ8z0rQfCygDZNdR5ARr96YJk6BFsr1fo2nvxYtPUM /sEBUnyqlXb9dEC+isjQF8p+GB5LnUvpq070egXwfR/MKKzRhyXstQ5Hnzf5GpbRuWNf sJq9kuaMa4yic+0mQoz6aioooCNOgZg1L6lhW2JSXqpJndG9xK8H0Z8kOe9vl9dS5Gu4 3utpGYou1RYuVR2+ytJ3x6kILoIPfPoxuAg7WajJ4z7hqDAqvfReNtMdbEgGnAYnHxa8 z+HQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXOKrj1bWvYaQ1vbInDAPp3SQk8U6C2jbKIiv47zUXrWBDu3icx sLAfZiG61uTjBpJzqSunffxHouzYxtWe6bZ5mGI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwV3aQoCB9wiGZOJEIYMogmKii1Tf7Cso2qpXz3yzEpo5Kj0B8WnYQQrzhpYKCMJ//HBWvVt0iCHgGNVQSKUhQ= X-Received: by 2002:a54:4f95:: with SMTP id g21mr11006184oiy.23.1562631140606; Mon, 08 Jul 2019 17:12:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20190707214326.GD4053@ACM> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:238423 Archived-At: On Sun, 7 Jul 2019 at 17:43, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > I disagree. All these "readability hacks" greatly increase the number > of functions a hacker must cope with, and greatly increase their > complexity (they require cl-... macros, many of which are poorly > documented). > > We've coped now with (nth 8 state) (for the starting position of a > string or comment) for decades now without any problems. The sort of > "readability hack" proposed, as it is steadily proliferated, makes the > entry barrier for new Elisp programmers steadily higher. To use it is > one extra thing which has to be learned, or looked up. > This sort of complication needs to be kept in check. But thanks, Lars, > for actually having the consideration to ask here first. Huh. I'm constantly annoyed at the (nth 8 state) thing, because I can never remember which number is which. In fact, I had meant to propose some accessors in Bug#32504. It didn't actually occur to me that this might be at all controversial, the only reason that bug sat for a while is that I got busy with other things. https://debbugs.gnu.org/32504#51