From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id 8LLnC90+xF4HHwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:17:33 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id ePLOB90+xF5rOQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:17:33 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 94D26940A38 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:17:32 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:43064 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb8g6-0003wN-Az for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:17:30 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57782) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb8d9-0000F6-1u for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:14:27 -0400 Received: from mail-lj1-x22e.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::22e]:43722) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jb8d7-0008Pf-8N for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:14:26 -0400 Received: by mail-lj1-x22e.google.com with SMTP id q2so1102592ljm.10 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 13:14:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uyT7M7MmupvKYZvBBHyOjnLspf7jkyN4YpE3N6Bp9T8=; b=aH6kjuBY7d5Tex4nwLDd5n0hs7VMW8mlBWlzhlRM1GO2SzLayQHqoFo6uYqPBszI4P 3mx6PbEDAHFxI6nTw1eb2nB7AXNAgumdf/L2CiCHsTl4qqRTvG/zOPTCjYb2MhG6IIkS aZXfRsSMM2+EgFBQ+YKx4UGWRpOro/kedfJ62OlLfPpyCowEkezrhgr7CBy1A3SUQy9W aOlSJkJKaqViEs+nsmKcc8AvHaPffboZoeotVPZa93q9IlwKrTtSKInnrRsp/EVQbkem NELsWGqy2fAH43PPxChRQUdK0sDGxLZiHRyh/O6tankHiiLdngQteNr6R4Q0rldIwn1s 4S2A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=uyT7M7MmupvKYZvBBHyOjnLspf7jkyN4YpE3N6Bp9T8=; b=IKLnlyMvb69MbxtY+MOzQt0z/WTPiL7q8nJOx49y8gtsKhadTMRvg8Ww7FxknEj6DX H4bcnzSv+w+Xi0OgDeWft0wJF7CL+ryrJ5bad3N4tnW4u6d7zOWYGJFOKHC6tAiAdgba c+6s1c6AC9YU05012ZlJOqvyNdDKslFRMT0PY36sYacbY5+5dVtiqdQr1qv4V5WZFPU+ OhVBNzgPNx0yvgetCA/vjO5OL76LrgWbnr2uTPFj22XPYPgcM/gLYOv2YlY6X9GB3R7S UWOA/oo7oRwwOXLNO8vbVfr0yuamaOOuw6jNVsVRGQedGs5x8oNoBtYbkVFql82BtOPo wSdg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531BLXm9ErojQYwjsGjdpZbpZ0jzsQWOUSTc1gbmab6h5ES9XS+T uyIBGPIJxRcfg63qrG/or1ct/GbzmnGez9I40SUr9afq X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwxWE+ATLVrtBeMZNYuHriXDwJpZOrJQi3yMMPZ3JUbcWQbKFyf6Bdjshz8EKQwx/WGLvbbTuwxg1Jm2XWpWOQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:920f:: with SMTP id k15mr607444ljg.131.1589919262275; Tue, 19 May 2020 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200519165720.GQ30250@volibear> <20200519172941.GR30250@volibear> <91d36855-ff5d-46cf-91b8-2621fb5cfcab@www.fastmail.com> <20200519194833.GS30250@volibear> In-Reply-To: <20200519194833.GS30250@volibear> From: Trey Ethan Harris Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:14:11 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: issue tracker? To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d97f3305a605ec7c" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::22e; envelope-from=treyharris@gmail.com; helo=mail-lj1-x22e.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=aH6kjuBY; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -0.71 X-TUID: uABirdm+D5gs --000000000000d97f3305a605ec7c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 15:49 Russell Adams wrote: > Is there a problem with submitting issues via the mailing list? Has > something > gone unaddressed? Do you have any statistics to show that there is > decreased > participation because you have to use email? Is something really > inefficient at > the moment? Did you have patches ignored? I think you have the null hypothesis backwards here. Do you have any statistics to show that issues _are not_ dropping through the cracks? Sending a =E2=80=9Cping?=E2=80=9D message on a ML is generally considered p= oor netiquette, and even if it were expected here, would make many requesters uncomfortable. That=E2=80=99s one of the fundamental things any tracker doe= s=E2=80=94keeps statistics on and forces every issue to _some_ resolution, even if it=E2=80= =99s =E2=80=9Cwill not fix=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Con hold=E2=80=9D. Things don=E2= =80=99t just peter out and get forgotten like on email threads. (I have not done the exercise of perusing old email threads to see if I can find issues being dropped on the floor. But I=E2=80=99ve already found seve= ral apparent existence proofs. Whether they=E2=80=99re common or rare is a ques= tion I can=E2=80=99t answer without doing tedious manual work that is the entire r= aison d=E2=80=99=C3=AAtre of a tracker.) I wouldn=E2=80=99t dispute that the Linux kernel ML, for the most part, wor= ks. But the Linux kernel mailing list is a rather different beast than the potential users of an issue tracker for any other software project I can imagine=E2=80=94the technical acumen expected of contributors is high, quot= idian back-and-forth user-assistance exchanges with non-contributors are not tolerated, people are usually expected to offer fixes as working code and not simply prose bug reports or feature requests (except for critical or security issues), and patches and pull requests on the mailing list are dealt with using a distributed version-control system that was purpose-built for the task (though happens to have worked well enough to because the most widely-used DVCS period). --000000000000d97f3305a605ec7c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 15:49 Russell Adams <RLAdams@adamsinfoserv.com> wrote:
<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
Is there a problem with submitting issues via the mailing list? Has somethi= ng
gone unaddressed? Do you have any statistics to show that there is decrease= d
participation because you have to use email? Is something really inefficien= t at
the moment? Did you have patches ignored?
I think you have the null hypothesis backwards her= e. Do you have any statistics to show that issues _are not_ dropping throug= h the cracks? Sending a =E2=80=9Cping?=E2=80=9D message on a ML is generall= y considered poor netiquette, and even if it were expected here, would make= many requesters uncomfortable. That=E2=80=99s one of the fundamental thing= s any tracker does=E2=80=94keeps statistics on and forces every issue to _s= ome_ resolution, even if it=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cwill not fix=E2=80=9D or =E2= =80=9Con hold=E2=80=9D. Things don=E2=80=99t just peter out and get forgott= en like on email threads.

(I have not done the exercise of perusing old email threads to see if I c= an find issues being dropped on the floor. But I=E2=80=99ve already found s= everal apparent existence proofs. Whether they=E2=80=99re common or rare is= a question I can=E2=80=99t answer without doing tedious manual work that i= s the entire raison d=E2=80=99=C3=AAtre of a tracker.)

I wouldn=E2=80=99t dispute that the Linux ke= rnel ML, for the most part, works. But the Linux kernel mailing list is a r= ather different beast than the potential users of an issue tracker for any = other software project I can imagine=E2=80=94the technical acumen expected = of contributors is high, quotidian back-and-forth user-assistance exchanges= with non-contributors are not tolerated, people are usually expected to of= fer fixes as working code and not simply prose bug reports or feature reque= sts (except for critical or security issues), and patches and pull requests= on the mailing list are dealt with using a distributed version-control sys= tem that was purpose-built for the task (though happens to have worked well= enough to because the most widely-used DVCS period).
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