From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: VOTE: Changing completions-common-part face's default Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2019 13:22:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87pni7p83l.fsf@gmail.com> <87h83ipoi0.fsf@gmail.com> <93235eb5-8e04-7182-e2a4-49fbe610ee2b@yandex.ru> <28d4ae09-daca-324b-2fa6-9d7138d710fa@yandex.ru> <87zhh82d8c.fsf@gmail.com> <1e1aa5a7-a35b-2ef5-6caf-10e02dd0c6ea@yandex.ru> <3cfbe69a-c274-f4f2-f3f5-9eb4c8500bb8@yandex.ru> <83lfspa4ma.fsf@gnu.org> <83zhh58dd0.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="26386"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 09 14:24:24 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iTQj0-0006jE-TF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:24:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36788 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTQiy-0003MQ-2B for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 08:24:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36745) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iTQhu-0003MF-QK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 08:23:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTQht-0003YJ-KE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 08:23:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd29.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d29]:38541) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iTQhn-0003WU-VO; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 08:23:08 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd29.google.com with SMTP id i13so8037480ioj.5; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 05:23:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nQhk2EJXDtm+al5heYFIX1lUlASekVPDC4HkqFVh15A=; b=ohzKxQXLEouCkLWlVCsqlFhIQiE9hB1F5VDdQgUGDxIp+gTwY9dJrIglFC11UYT98b +rKuidsrrR+BxYJHz+w3Uv7P6XmixQPM90DGYFKOnh+T31DXE0N/iwYoq/ROFENc5mU8 UvjDID7FXJwGfuJ1vhK7qs6yTUCBDAzo4jo2XgoKHDA4Yl6CZ56mUD9k8w0hYUyCMNZh 3H+NOsBHxRjVqCCenm7FPUqGKN48fEM+l/THqE5U0MClKgRldWKf7D6jjRg8ICcL/wzc PZ5cwvgQ3Klr3CRi0sHNd5u42aNqOCVxqy24LwW+p83lNUrP0Abqpt+W0DzCaUZtjBWz Ssaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nQhk2EJXDtm+al5heYFIX1lUlASekVPDC4HkqFVh15A=; b=dWVDQeRCxprDP9zr0x5YEiTZRVU9bw67vsLgKgndGXeQZmp4kdLtF79Ed+TDJ2d2Ow fYzE5F7mlYqFYV8b9inc/bs5v8zpl2YGp0vBAj3/Nan3GoMyhAQ8JidEeH0RuMVI9ed+ LhjKUhIkbHQ4Qxl6JPrVOdwzJ8Jh8i7ak6D9uyZV3T0sxuQc14fkhvppNYBCbmaJqUOK 1zRJVbGNaXms+kRSZgruPnEAyZ84UNGR8eySK4+sAB7JwgubpABDMwlNkkPmzrkRZv28 yYs91NwjI6nQsl9w6CVUIN13bEhH4jGto4r2HSpMObJM1PG7sq6+NiV8YffjdhUCih1k LYgw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUwbSbnAWTyXeO1QCAZN3NxxjInr4W5Egrmz4ozPzSkpsJdMFr/ WJwh8w4D2iFJ8nnXCwzps/IyLkqcbxdHjZcq5Zo9OF02 X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxhLy32lu/BYjZ4BeH1Eh5VB1CX4N74vuwIIbNzMY2zI5rQI2jCymAwNAqWwHPuoWZi2AZqe3izfb29y55cV+s= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:3b03:: with SMTP id i3mr15956581ioa.199.1573305785912; Sat, 09 Nov 2019 05:23:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83zhh58dd0.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d29 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:242040 Archived-At: On Sat, Nov 9, 2019 at 12:04 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > You could, but since that's how Emacs worked for the last 11 years, I > don't see how such a claim would stand. Well, SLIME's fuzzy is older than that, for example. So age is not a major factor factor here. Also, the current behaviour was adopted when there was NO flex in Emacs. If there would have been, the decision would have been different, IMO. > I tried that with different styles, including flex, and I still don't > agree with you about the need to reverse the emphasis. So what you > think must be the default at least for me doesn't sound 100% correct, > as I find flex very usable for me with the current method of emphasis. I'm very happy that you find it usable. However, I have the conviction -- what I've been trying to persuade you of that conviction -- that it is _more_ useful for the remaining population of existing flex users _when_ it has the highlighting I propose. If you take one of my proposals, then you, as an individual from a new population of flex users migrating from 'prefix' can still customize it to adhere to your longstanding 'prefix' habits. Or you can adapt to what I think is the majority's use of 'flex'. > I'm sorry, but that's not how defaults in Emacs change, not because > you give me your word or describe what other applications do. Not > when the proposed behavior is in such stark contrast to what we've > been doing for years. We first introduce such a new feature as > optional, and later change it to be the default based on user reports > and complaints. I suggest to do the same in this case. Again, I must stress that the latest proposal is NOT a change in defaults because the people starting out emacs with no settings whatsoever would see _absolutely_ no new behaviour. It is only people that _enable_ the new matching style 'flex', which I implemented some months ago, that would see the highlighting the way I propose it. I will, as I have already done, concede that it is a change in what you and others have called "consistency" between matching styles. I have explained enough, I think, why I think this isn't a big problem. But in any case it is NOT a change in defaults, unless you are considering that there is already a large number of 'flex' users tracking the Emacs master branch between some months ago and today that rely on it functioning the way it does. I do not think that is the case. (Note, to avoid a frequent misunderstanding, that I'm talking strictly about my latest 2 proposals, alright? the "renames" one and the "new-face-just-for-flex". Again I did indeed propose earlier a change in defaults, which I abandoned.) Also, as another data point, you need not travel beyond Emacs-land to see examples that corroborate my vision. You needn't even travel farther than GNU ELPA, I believe. Company's tooltip behaves like I describe, and so does Ivy. A little farther you have Helm, an extremely popular extension, and SLIME, and SLY. Jo=C3=A3o