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(was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 23:52:31 +0100 Message-ID: References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10124"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Phil Sainty , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 00:53:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRPQ-0002RG-HT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 00:53:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52146 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRPO-0007nn-EC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:53:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37754) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWROY-00076k-7D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:52:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1034.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034]:51958) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWROW-0000cD-Bj; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 18:52:45 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1034.google.com with SMTP id oj16so4240401pjb.1; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:52:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T07b/YLdXc383HswaHTGnBplI8A/SuSdcjuOe+rTd0I=; b=Fj4F2u5V2gLoau0XanCqvb1DstdpkE3AF8bxkhTxA9ye9xI7+Zr4uNmtbsFZf3475Y mUgJukj/IHd39GmIkZyrno+EwVtIeM0GiRGEZ3C1nvGMMnl2pX6HxYZ95Wo5AwvgFGca /KhFTuvRxY/OGWBJA7yQqTH7wAb4bDM1WIiCWgEAFMwpuY+tU5y0Feds5AUs5/KbR10d DNtBKVUjty1+8rDnaWpjd9UwlXLIXSLmKU82RhZ94sVjiSZuitSuia3sSBaPze4dg2H/ IEqeWKonkTeUBa/Xt8nWF92bB0HjT7wESNJ4jdsgK+3eURfVIX6f8T3NcNZg8FY8FlSQ 8s8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=T07b/YLdXc383HswaHTGnBplI8A/SuSdcjuOe+rTd0I=; b=FK+4fQ6S2L/R1iDz4pKFIuC7xARyBTuJDuW669ymooVOr59P1E40VgYGew0l7xXfCI paAbK+6iPkr8bL+g14Db2Up+RpueqU73XkWI/8+MaIH75b7AyfU+IFcMlWD2ovOSCzGk 0gffbPu4zJx8cOQZ3OC+W5XsU2YHaixxXG0C2RDduaHWoCvwvUMzTaBv2wCsCHZXIt2d aTO9Xy9dvnEDssb74lTCiTqr+2dBWgnAilD9ENv0ukZzwEmAvHKKHqLV6kXifa/7bWgU pyRidKlHXpIwmkengpKCV/IjToLrUOea1bxUj06ygRFEJleKRgaet33qJa6tvOwe65ta 6Vrw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532TtEMxbMwZS2CHjsIHddoM4M+vmfURM9IXAagD4X4ZdAptxgYy N7Ed5Lx4PYBQVImw6ySwjc1M/+NGX/lu7iXqLG7/G9cL X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy2EBw3uOyiadyqG3LT6Xf5E8rqgltpMfaYZzbw4LfTn+V6zO69PUtgwpPyhfZLZtzoGQP/99Qcn8IHC44am1M= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:c245:b0:13e:2254:d3d6 with SMTP id 5-20020a170902c24500b0013e2254d3d6mr11796855plg.52.1633128761684; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 15:52:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1034; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1034.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276020 Archived-At: > > The second use-case, and the one I think will prove to be FAR > > more common if this goes ahead, is this: Some people simply want > > to read and write shorter symbol names in their code. > > I would not object to making rules about naming or usage conventions > for the shorter names, in the second use-case. > > We can't follow those conventions for the first use-case. They would > not work. But it is ok to treat the two use-cases differently. Note that the two cases are related. The very reason why libraries like s.el, dash.el and f.el appeared and blossomed in popularity is, in no small part, that "people simply want to read and write shorter names in their code". It's perfectly legitimate not to desire this individually, but it is misgui= ded to try to forbid others from achieving this desire. Rather, sensible rules should be drafted and tooling should be developed that can protect both viewpoints. Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora