From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: jit-lock-antiblink-grace Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 11:28:39 +0100 Message-ID: References: <834l0enw8c.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2xqm6m4.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8ymlzkk.fsf@gnu.org> <835zktm9o0.fsf@gnu.org> <83o8ylknjw.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009e40e80594c8370a" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="233071"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 13 12:29:52 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iJb8K-000yXu-2u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 12:29:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38632 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJb8I-0002TM-Vy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 06:29:51 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59292) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJb7T-0002SD-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 06:29:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJb7S-0008QT-Bd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 06:28:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]:33237) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJb7M-0008No-GR; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 06:28:52 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id z19so30938937ior.0; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 03:28:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KaObay+E5qHbnBSEFOCzn6VC86lSZU+NqYCUhLvOnQw=; b=pyKrBnStvncDAIn7/kNO36pD2M8McOiML8NkiIWycUz7y/ZDo99X1MHqA2z26/bIAn NMGHiw0MVum7y9tS5pphVZYSS3DQ4zl8/exPpt+hOARXJrKqSvZVRxNW9D6qcZqyFS2Z qTa5ea9tELHlyou4oMeNvh1zPj/628+CAJbs9HG3WFjnmxCTIxbtXx2nS+d4GPJpMIRI SeBuYzikx5wNtftI0E3yERl7LZeCelAdiWr6YSllStxhRbMNIjQqAeugZVEWCCo/SFdi GvPyfN5Re9m+VDGBtabCABzzYwrXAkV2whgdpYX47CxEmfHz3L7KuAtltqO6eFCzisgN w2wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KaObay+E5qHbnBSEFOCzn6VC86lSZU+NqYCUhLvOnQw=; b=abLbdmTS1hGLGqfQy3BAG3+6WL5mU6Bes9UU211M4IXdNxO17TIV9L1GFAeL+PM5EN NI31Job+riZo47Mt3hh8kDEiJrButf0tj+aFol+3a3wPMiJZpNEwVCdV/qARW6gq8T7A XfTRB0HJ1rp1vYj3RPPJGn6B/XnjEQVUhtKus5lEI6WTuMAfQfj2bLZjCdOfXLP9T+J8 /HhZKl6TsQGBF6J2ye6T1UusiZN2xoPz+jYQWrDeEOyhAW0sozGyRT5X5GYqSGuJqH2Q 5eVsl5KZcrZPmEH9ZuwPpYOFRX4w3Nm0fe/216sq61xj8yHaVFCiPdPIJjVGN81j4Syq 4rvw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWIDcw+yfJYlEa+iR6R37EE8NSgVavD1gN3mP3QRaDOyK3112+S NPApTe4zEQaBtw2ceKtmtsgRpRkFkNI5d5RDj/pLrOrRXiM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwjDPXgnNTJST+XS5wlqAZNlOGJ+5S8RlQmN507BbDLQ3WIo0HvR10AqvLN52tk2wVBd+19+x1jKnNyPdplfP4= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8e05:: with SMTP id a5mr8953009ion.125.1570962531040; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 03:28:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83o8ylknjw.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:240954 Archived-At: --0000000000009e40e80594c8370a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 10:22 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > Very simply: the behavior is different from what we had previously. > > Of course, there is different behaviour in every feature except a > > refactorization. > No, bug fixes make changes that don't change behavior, not in general. We're well into hair-splitting territory here but I would argue that a bug fix, by definition, changes incorrect behaviour into correct behaviour. > New features do change behavior, and we normally don't turn them all > on by default, not unless we have a very good reason. I understand that, and I agree with this policy. My very good reason for enabling by default is that this change is cheap, i.e. there are very few adverse effects (be it in performance or behaviour change), and considerable benefit. Of course, I've yet to prove the performance hit is neglibile and I also separately trying to convince that the lost behaviour is almost never desirable. Speaking of benchmarks, what is the correct way to benchmark this, i.e. to simulate "paging down a file". Is it just sth like (while t (call-interactively 'next-line)) ? Or should I add a `redisplay` or something else there? > > Do I explain myself? > Yes, but I already knew all that, so there's no misunderstanding on my > part. Well, you did write two mails ago that the current "almost immediate" visual feedback would be delayed for 2 seconds or more. Since that is patently not true it led me to believe there was a misunderstanding (or a bug). > > Anyway, your point seems to be to minimize the probability of incessant > > debug chatter in *Messages* which would supposedly render an Emacs with > > a buggy jit-lock.el unusable. > It's not just the *Messages* buffer: each call to 'message' causes > redisplay, so we will have a flood of redisplays, which is not nice. Yes, but my point was that in a buggy jit-lock.el such things are relatively unimportant in comparison, hence the case for early warning. Jo=C3=A3o --0000000000009e40e80594c8370a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 10:22 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > > Very= simply: the behavior is different from what we had previously.
> >= ; Of course, there is different behaviour in every feature except a
>= > refactorization.
> No, bug fixes make changes that don't ch= ange behavior, not in general.

We're well into hair-splitting te= rritory here but I would argue that a
bug fix, by definition, changes in= correct behaviour into correct
behaviour.

> New features do ch= ange behavior, and we normally don't turn them all
> on by defaul= t, not unless we have a very good reason.

I understand that, and I a= gree with this policy.=C2=A0 My very good reason
for enabling by default= is that this change is cheap, i.e. there are
very few adverse effects (= be it in performance or behaviour change), and
considerable benefit.=C2= =A0 Of course, I've yet to prove the performance hit
is neglibile an= d I also separately trying to convince that the lost
behaviour is almost= never desirable.

Speaking of benchmarks, what is the correct way to= benchmark this,
i.e. to simulate "paging down a file". Is it = just sth like

=C2=A0 (while t (call-interactively 'next-line))
? Or should I add a `redisplay` or something else there?

> = > Do I explain myself?
> Yes, but I already knew all that, so ther= e's no misunderstanding on my
> part.

Well, you did write = two mails ago that the current "almost immediate"
visual feedb= ack would be delayed for 2 seconds or more.=C2=A0 Since that is
patently= not true it led me to believe there was a misunderstanding (or
a bug).<= br>
> > Anyway, your point seems to be to minimize the probability= of incessant
> > debug chatter in *Messages* which would supposed= ly render an Emacs with
> > a buggy jit-lock.el unusable.
> = It's not just the *Messages* buffer: each call to 'message' cau= ses
> redisplay, so we will have a flood of redisplays, which is not = nice.

Yes, but my point was that in a buggy jit-lock.el such things = are
relatively unimportant in comparison, hence the case for early warni= ng.

Jo=C3=A3o
--0000000000009e40e80594c8370a--