From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: jit-lock-antiblink-grace Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2019 23:26:00 +0100 Message-ID: References: <834l0enw8c.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2xqm6m4.fsf@gnu.org> <20191012161400.GB9818@ACM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003fea4a0594be1fb2" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="69218"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 13 00:41:03 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iJQ4L-000Hr1-4M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Oct 2019 00:41:01 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36370 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJQ4J-0007Bq-RH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 18:40:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40970) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iJQ48-0006pY-Qo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 18:40:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJPq3-0007Xo-Im for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 18:26:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]:46489) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iJPq1-0007Wt-CY; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 18:26:13 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id c6so28938599ioo.13; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 15:26:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7RPXJj1//LbNrOhKgG5N5SYTlf6wbqHBjK/SeHg5Yyw=; b=NUFNVxrbIp4kZzFZdP7GtlpxsINx56ttGj9KTOOpwaJunb94w0S+pVrBWObG/cFFqh dC8QotsvevgEoq3OXLM6rwjdEWZDzkWRmUgaSBxdVJ6pkhGBwViLp0P63LNWF6SiuQGf JnsR56gkC7AF7eescBdSg1tK7BwBeUkedSJx1o3D7TAIHhdt4wJevBNDweZh6c4+6aTp jezkEmMWP9xh3H7AqnXBmwV7PC661E6z0OBDNWd3e6lERtTkDuAMat/1Ta369cUxbfo4 7e4zAEqZfDpKuBw8LZStpoVNVQEXE1e29H8DiZ/CpGs7Iw7erP02G6nbAe8pvjo9MWHB URSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7RPXJj1//LbNrOhKgG5N5SYTlf6wbqHBjK/SeHg5Yyw=; b=CM39p66XCKP7HFq+ZiEKhB9epFOoEbR0SxhCqpvjFrh3CnyUb6QSsfUBjScssty+Fd RnCRtmVkBXd5kxdnnBw/iz735rz4/WkgvG9EIpg7zdNshiUnQeNRdQrCvtSqKdNtJsEk byaaZhl0vJzQU3mr7piFzWKS4ok6Omt6YFb5KknAJ5Qj2Kj/ocvBjvKAs5W2Pur2T+ba kHoS0v3zKItIYr3QPul9/21pWDmqUgwfXscCDsR/+R/0tty0eodgQTgmhafUOUBZQnXd 923SjDTpp1UWHIMdkp2WSx1A8iTP4+MVJqCuAlnKw5FwRiMD5jGL0hCdyHgvzuVTTytD r0zQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWPWkjMZoEqsPX8iH/iZ5rYTsvEAky8fW18mqU66OL4ZsjN6qf2 Ff1RLS+TaSfSu/K2kumx8UbPh+5aswE3ZM483Zs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxj5hpsXZ74FT2BcaUrR7aFaGtJVOTmAoQvzgsUipCXa8xf/zC+T+gg+/d9P5p7vy9WU1ZCM5stx7zh20VO2E4= X-Received: by 2002:a5e:8e05:: with SMTP id a5mr6086527ion.125.1570919172531; Sat, 12 Oct 2019 15:26:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20191012161400.GB9818@ACM> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:240939 Archived-At: --0000000000003fea4a0594be1fb2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 5:14 PM Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Hello, Jo=C3=A3o. > > Regarding slowdown, we have to check by how much. Regarding the > > pertinence of the modificaiton, there are mode-specific modifications > > with (IMO much worse) backward-incompatible behaviour being made to > > modes like to c-mode to circumvent precisely this problem. > No. You're right. I never really understood _your_ motivation for it. Of all its serious drawbacks, the only positive effect that others -- indeed not you -- effectively pointed out is that it partially solves the "flashing" or "blinking" problem for users who don't use electric-pair-mode, smartparens, or similar solutions. In contrast, your explanations for that particular feature, which conflated syntax and font-lock considerations, were always nonsensical to me. With all sincerity, whenever I tried to follow your logic I came to a insoluble contradiction. Alas, I'm afraid my ability to follow the same arguments hasn't evolved much in the meantime, and so I very much wish not to rehash that discussion. Anyway, after recognizing the legitimacy of the aforementioned "flashing" problem (which, again, I avoid with electric-pair-mode), I took up a stuggestion by Stefan for an alternative way to solve that problem. So that there would be less justification to the behaviour-breaking changes to CC Mode, or at least so that other mode authors aren't encouraged to replicate your approach, that I personally consider harmful. Jo=C3=A3o --0000000000003fea4a0594be1fb2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 5:14 PM Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
>
> Hello, Jo= =C3=A3o.

> > Regarding slowdown, we have to check by how much.= =C2=A0 Regarding the
> > pertinence of the modificaiton, there are= mode-specific modifications
> > with (IMO much worse) backward-in= compatible behaviour being made to
> > modes like to c-mode to cir= cumvent precisely this problem.
> No.

You're right. I neve= r really understood _your_ motivation for it.=C2=A0 Of
all its serious d= rawbacks, the only positive effect that others --
indeed not you -- effe= ctively pointed out is that it partially solves
the "flashing"= or "blinking" problem for users who don't use
electric-pa= ir-mode, smartparens, or similar solutions.=C2=A0 In contrast,
your expl= anations for that particular feature, which conflated syntax
and font-lo= ck considerations, were always nonsensical to me.=C2=A0 With all
sinceri= ty, whenever I tried to follow your logic I came to a insoluble
contradi= ction.=C2=A0 Alas, I'm afraid my ability to follow the same argumentshasn't evolved much in the meantime, and so I very much wish not torehash that discussion.

Anyway, after recognizing the legitimacy o= f the aforementioned
"flashing" problem (which, again, I avoid= with electric-pair-mode), I
took up a stuggestion by Stefan for an alte= rnative way to solve that
problem.=C2=A0 So that there would be less jus= tification to the
behaviour-breaking changes to CC Mode, or at least so = that other mode
authors aren't encouraged to replicate your approach= , that I personally
consider harmful.

Jo=C3=A3o
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