From: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: Yuan Fu <casouri@gmail.com>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>,
theodor thornhill <theo@thornhill.no>,
geza.herman@gmail.com, Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>,
emacs-devel@gnu.org, Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
Subject: Re: treesit indentation "blinking"
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2023 18:23:57 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALDnm538zY+=0s-H_meGddxWYNic5Nowtg82tiqWRZEnFYzCPA@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZCm1huXHQKKHWCVd@ACM>
On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 6:04 PM Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> wrote:
> > > electric-pair-mode is a user option. We shouldn't be mandating such
> > > things to users, they should be individual choices.
>
> > Fair enough. But so is electric-indent-mode and its electric-indent-chars
> > which are problematic in c++-ts-mode and they _are_ enabled by default.
>
> Yes. Users should be able to chose from amongst these options. They
> shouldn't be "problematic", and that was the point of my last post.
And my point was underlying that electric-indent-chars and electric-indent
mode is currently being "mandated", so to be consistent with your principle
we might as well "mandate" neither of them.
> > electric-pair-mode not only is unproblematic in c++-ts-mode (at least, as
> > far as we know) but is proven to be a good (though not perfect) defense
> > against the real problems posed by the default value of electric-indent-mode
> > and the default value of electric-indent-chars in c++-ts-mode specifically.
>
> It's not a "good defense" for somebody, like me, who doesn't like it.
> It's not good for Emacs for options only to work when distinct other
> options are also enabled.
>
> > So it makes sense to either have both e-p-m and e-i-m or none (or at least
> > less of the second as has been suggested).
>
> Not from a user's point of view. These two modes are wholly independent
> of each other (from that user's point of view), and she should be able
> to enable either or both, as desired, and have them work properly.
But they don't, at least not at the moment. That's a fact.
Of the two modes, one of them is working wholly inaccurately and not doing
any good, and that mode is electric-indent-mode. Because of a combination
of the ambitious value of electric-indent-chars _and_ the underlying
indentation rules problems.
So my initial idea was to tone down electric-indent-chars, at least
for the moment. And Dmitry's idea was to make electric-indent-chars
be ambitious _only_ if electric-pair-mode is enabled (by the user).
Maybe we should bring back that idea, and it seems the least bad of the
bunch right now.
> > At least until the presumed indentation bugs (if in fact they are bugs
> > at all) are fixed (if in fact there is an easy fix for them).
>
> I think it is clear there are bugs here. Electric indentation isn't
> working.
Yes.
If we take c++-mode to be the absolute reference, no it isn't, and
it's unlikely that it ever will. If we take a more modest stance
and think of other editors that don't indent exactly like c++-mode,
then the issue is more subtle.
It's important to state that AFAIK when the buffer is correctly balanced,
c++-ts-mode's indentation is flawless. We're talking about invalid
situations here, and there it's harder to know what the "good" indentation
is, but a nice rule-of-thumb could be "don't do anything". Another
rule would be: do exactly what c++-mode does, but that's a taller order
and I don't think we should be aiming for it.
> > This comparison doesn't make sense to me because in Emacs it's easy to
> > disable it.
>
> But disabling it hits the bugs in electric indentation.
Yes! :-) So you'd tone down electric-indent-chars, but that's been turned
down. So options are disable electric-indent-mode entirely in c++-ts-mode,
enable electric-pair-mode, or live with poor ergonomics in emacs-29
until the bugs are fixed.
João
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2023-04-02 17:23 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 73+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2023-03-22 20:49 treesit indentation "blinking" Daniel Colascione
2023-03-23 0:00 ` Yuan Fu
2023-03-23 0:07 ` Daniel Colascione
2023-03-23 1:02 ` Yuan Fu
2023-03-23 4:51 ` Daniel Colascione
2023-03-23 20:04 ` Yuan Fu
2023-03-23 21:10 ` Daniel Colascione
2023-03-23 21:24 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-25 9:05 ` João Távora
2023-03-25 12:42 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-25 14:42 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-25 16:18 ` João Távora
2023-03-28 22:11 ` João Távora
2023-03-28 23:57 ` Daniel Colascione
2023-03-29 2:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-29 22:30 ` João Távora
2023-03-29 22:37 ` Herman, Géza
2023-03-29 23:25 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 7:47 ` Herman, Géza
2023-03-29 22:56 ` Lynn Winebarger
2023-03-30 7:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 8:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-30 9:15 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 9:06 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 9:20 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-30 9:28 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 9:36 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-30 10:00 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 16:29 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-30 17:14 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 10:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 10:26 ` Herman, Géza
2023-03-30 13:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 15:03 ` Herman, Géza
2023-03-30 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-01 19:39 ` Yuan Fu
2023-04-02 1:49 ` Yuan Fu
2023-04-02 5:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-02 14:26 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-04-02 15:48 ` João Távora
2023-04-02 17:04 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-04-02 17:23 ` João Távora [this message]
2023-04-02 17:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-02 18:04 ` João Távora
2023-04-02 18:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-04-02 21:38 ` João Távora
2023-04-02 21:21 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-02 21:40 ` João Távora
2023-04-03 9:59 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-04-03 10:28 ` João Távora
2023-04-03 12:07 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-03 12:56 ` Alan Mackenzie
2023-04-03 20:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-03 21:59 ` Daniel Colascione
2023-04-03 22:10 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-04 8:31 ` João Távora
2023-04-07 14:20 ` Daniel Martín
2023-04-08 1:32 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-08 2:42 ` Yuan Fu
2023-04-08 18:59 ` Daniel Martín
2023-04-03 21:47 ` parser error recovery algorithm vs " Stephen Leake
2023-04-04 12:01 ` John Yates
2023-04-04 13:40 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-04-04 16:00 ` Stephen Leake
2023-04-04 13:50 ` Stephen Leake
2023-04-04 14:05 ` Dmitry Gutov
2023-03-30 11:05 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 14:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 14:43 ` João Távora
2023-03-30 14:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2023-03-30 15:42 ` João Távora
2023-03-25 16:14 ` João Távora
2023-03-24 11:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
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