From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 13:00:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> <83pm7z7nkc.fsf@gnu.org> <83ttxa6ghi.fsf@gnu.org> <83jzy66aig.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35059"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arne_bab@web.de, jporterbugs@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 20 14:02:06 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppSzG-0008uF-Rs for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 14:02:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppSxu-0006Ns-LN; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:00:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppSxr-0006Lx-Rw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:00:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oa1-x2f.google.com ([2001:4860:4864:20::2f]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppSxq-0000hB-A7; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:00:39 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oa1-x2f.google.com with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-1842d908377so572907fac.3; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:00:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1681992036; x=1684584036; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=WtPiRY0FaVweFO/+kc3v/6Dz1F5Es2GHboQpIUbp3BA=; b=P7rlmxQDFkwBPE1QwmDL4cH8LWqsKDnaBvXp8NhVQlkvO+MoDycoBoQxaXoATzpYQr yqgKxjXLB4BI3p//ENQq+ZH99nCAYTgPa6RDVUDsWD+5kW9IVleg6fPj32O4IjmvZDTL 7eQJ6Di9OhliWadncQcm6FhiOE2V5j2a5koP5+XId61MJiaSyJKgUPNpslQJzdjOHBor KBXlZoMBgb85s3Eb7ygvNhJPKTeocxKNRm3Lf+Pomkwx9gnV501ZkUUilcvsK/J17WMD C3vFLtyQcdi5TJFAhV4/ppblZk1LrqTVI20TbIXo6ig9TyzMzMmolnn2SXkU0GW8XJpw +D+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1681992036; x=1684584036; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=WtPiRY0FaVweFO/+kc3v/6Dz1F5Es2GHboQpIUbp3BA=; b=Ts07Vk7rFBA7qdYcb1dxeiUJTauC2X/e1QwjTjAbZH6A89GKrNX5Bjc7BetSk+xIeG AZdK/UeAX8e+Bg0XwJUqNROmeLvn6klZxApiGdVLtFuOL/6XQTVphBW0/WE2kW9FM5E0 TbSF/EsV6gShrOQDqklRMAJerPI/DBw/EqvOSQo9G8Os7mfrX8jK5HZAMU4vy2DQHINj teI0dqIFwrZi3Dr1YcvHJTSXWCemB7BDGhgcmc+OErxtSz66za5FgDu6liYCIw56Sfr/ R2xOoYv/lnA52f2nX8OZkVtXvh5t/4U4m5Mst1vU+ZTJmHAYDyq1vS6Ai1rVavHHAVSl b6+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9d6T62dqQuro/TrF+R86M47mT9CjUtkGuuS34h6oQbxhkJt9hN1 Pv5OB4ByrdDxfd7RLOWhrj3LMXun4Xxa4qsfEcUyJdhGGqs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZRRmcQXWPK5rf4tuRZDMkuLC/xNsQ18PAqoY3ggm7GiTprQ6xw1PcHYB0PNm5vYCpGfLxUz0k8sHcU2+T5vss= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6870:eca2:b0:178:9bb0:4c8e with SMTP id eo34-20020a056870eca200b001789bb04c8emr844412oab.48.1681992035037; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 05:00:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83jzy66aig.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:4860:4864:20::2f; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-oa1-x2f.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305500 Archived-At: On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 12:47=E2=80=AFPM Eli Zaretskii wrote= : > Not enough to justify breaking the rest But there is no characterization of this rest. > > Can you show even one issue where someone was surprised/harmed by > > furtive unintented updates of dependencies? > > You just heard one of them in this thread. I must have missed this. Maybe my spam filter? Who is this user and can I interview them to understand how my patch would hurt them? Dmitry? Arne? Jim? The only person who actively looked at my patch and read it and explained real-world implications was Dmitry. > I don't think this discussion with you can make any progress. > That hope was lost long ago I'm beginning to agree. I've also kind of lost hope. I'll take the damage and cut the losses with eglot-update. Thank you for you efforts anyway. Jo=C3=A3o