From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proper namespaces in Elisp Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 20:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: References: <237fe643-c14d-5406-b35d-a30dcd42c5ed@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="114183"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nic@ferrier.me.uk, =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= , emacs-devel To: Stefan Monnier , Helmut Eller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 04 21:03:31 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jVgNG-000Tbn-Bo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 21:03:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56512 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVgNF-00035Q-DO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 15:03:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43132) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVgM7-0002QU-2x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 15:02:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]:39524) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jVgM5-00040v-Sp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 May 2020 15:02:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id w4so13516777ioc.6 for ; Mon, 04 May 2020 12:02:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iDOuOPUfKx2bX5w2MeqT6U0qjBwI3He3KijcTp/u5nc=; b=cmmY5tiJ4MIDn7Nl6eC8e4L1uIQtcOuHZOm8tX9ze+C9Ks5ADpANEIQ8ELVGiKiiet 86y5B30gZlyq2CeItkDcobzMtswn7Q/MXiTxAuP6L4pGsIFvjxK/N3+MfKz3rEJLGnfp hM1dqFxnaT9yLwhDXlLI54xB/sYbC3GDrRm0UamT6oz3nHNFMMF8BAxu9dIwi7cFE+zD vyfst2fpg2vjcnTcOzJgabVcSQf7GWxiP4JlwkXeQUTethbD0xo4uojNIISMq4tO6uTo 44e1s1wt80SNlgBha/WeV8i7oneW4xNjF6Itg6R4CfMxNa/vl8hPzBGUE+Ps/u5dVyAa 7bVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iDOuOPUfKx2bX5w2MeqT6U0qjBwI3He3KijcTp/u5nc=; b=jgiY5czISOL/JOI/kwQaUin1smm08qmZG2ZJNzJbP80KSnnDw27z/g+ImZXkBku62+ zFszGXKaMtEgfbK2x84MWIdWgKGlqtfBOZG5HkpVZUR8kSmUSlARbczaWD81PDUVefMg HbKKNn8HNG69xOQlnSQHkJEhOYsOvp6i1XYeeliqWrkSwVtE2rXs1NNtIHKPVG/DSaJH Ggj4MkS4rSlA/VwcGtWV4xZgBZ44Ov16vloISZWn4hxAfDPNR/eU86sGixx187hdqaec 0C602LDtP+hv4v2V7RBkudB6X27dHczVwdHZUG+McIgE2jV54CTEmGItBE87VfUIWhoa qrGg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaKQIsSVmnlnM5BcTeU1Radb2zmYZYanZKO7YyJp3PWEubwCz8f zxonQVC9xEUm4GIOftaFfAtV1LDvM+CXGfzWNSo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLSWwEcMCP9lceM5kG+DOZck0ip7j+oa98SvoLy+ND0ROPf8cVTuJtOVbnmHWfJo+fQIefVbfBNDfzKr4fbrXo= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:8dc2:: with SMTP id p185mr17040448iod.138.1588618936416; Mon, 04 May 2020 12:02:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd44.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248905 Archived-At: On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:30 PM Helmut Eller wrote: > should be done by the compiler (like lexical scoping). In other words, > those people would like a mechanism to manage the names of variable > bindings not a mechanism to manage symbols. That last sentence sounds clever but I can't fully grok it. Do you really mean "variable bindings" or just "bindings"? (including function's). On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:39 PM Stefan Monnier wr= ote: > Richard mentioned his profound dislike of solutions that operate in > the reader. I'm not sufficiently familiar with Common Lisp's package > system to have a strong opinion on that, but Richard's criticism does > appeal to me (I've been brought up on namespace systems more like > Standard ML's structures). I can't even imagine what a solution that _doesn't_ operate on the reader looks like. Are you talking about form walking macros that walk the forms and switch the short version of names into the long versions and intern everything into the same obarray? Hmmm. Jo=C3=A3o