On Wed, Dec 21, 2022 at 1:47 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> > From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> > Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 12:57:21 +0000
> > Cc: Juri Linkov <juri@linkov.net>, Stefan Monnier <
> monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
> >       emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> >
> >  > So maybe it's not a problem to preload cl-lib
> >  > with byte-compiled size 19861.
> >
> >  Yeah, let's also preload Org while at that.  And Gnus.
> >
> > Hmm, we could trade it in for eldoc.el which is preloaded for some
> reason related to Elisp-mode but really
> > doesn't need to be (last time I checked).
>
> If we don't preload eldoc, it will be automatically loaded once you do
> "emacs -Q".  So it makes no sense not to preload it,
>

But I can't see how ElDoc can be useful when doing lots of
things from emacs -Q like adding '--batch -f batch-byte-compile'
or '--batch -f elisp-flymake--batch-compile-for-flymake', to name
 just two.

Even when just emacs -Q is used, which starts up
lisp-interaction-mode, which derives from emacs-lisp-mode, it's
not unthinkable that ElDoc won't be actually needed at all.

So IMO ElDoc should be auto-loaded, but not preloaded.
There's also another reason to do so: upgrading ElDoc via
M-x package-install (note that it is a :core GNU ELPA package)
is, last time I checked, made more difficult, and requires the
user to restart Emacs.

> unless we also display it by default.

You meant "disable" instead of "display" right?

João