Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Dmitry Gutov]

Hi Joao,

Shouldn't you make all these latest sorting-related changes on the 
emacs-27 branch?

Or is the current state good enough for the release?

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

Hi Dmitry,

I will cherry-pick them to 27.1, yes, with the "don't merge" hint. They are all
bug fixes. You can do it yourself, if you want to help me (but let me know).

The reason I haven't switched to 27.1 in my local checkout is that it takes time
to do so and I need this emacs for "production" :-)

As a minor nit, I also think the announcement of the 27 cut was kind
of low-key (I happened to notice it on a git fetch) and then found the
announcement buried inside a thread.  Didn't such things use to be
a top level thread things?  No biggie anyway.

João

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 11:39 AM Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> wrote:
>
> Hi Joao,
>
> Shouldn't you make all these latest sorting-related changes on the
> emacs-27 branch?
>
> Or is the current state good enough for the release?



-- 
João Távora

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:48:09 +0000
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> As a minor nit, I also think the announcement of the 27 cut was kind
> of low-key (I happened to notice it on a git fetch) and then found the
> announcement buried inside a thread.

Which thread did you have in mind?  I posted the announcement here:

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00635.html

and it definitely starts a new thread.

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

[sorry for the duplicate mail, Eli]

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:20 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:48:09 +0000
> > Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> >
> > As a minor nit, I also think the announcement of the 27 cut was kind
> > of low-key (I happened to notice it on a git fetch) and then found the
> > announcement buried inside a thread.
>
> Which thread did you have in mind?  I posted the announcement here:
>
>   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00635.html
>
> and it definitely starts a new thread.

That's the one I had in mind. It appears in the longer-running "Starting the
Emacs 27 release cycle" thread as a reply to Bastien's
https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00129.html
(as you can see by following the link your posted).

Even though you removed the "Re:" from the subject, Gmail also hides it in the
same "conversation", so it doesn't stand out as a new thread.  I seem to recall
some heavier "ANNOUNCE" stuff in the past, but can't be sure. Anyway, this
is a very minor nit: thanks a lot for this work.

Maybe I should blame Gmail. I'm working on ditching it, or at least
the web client, but can't seem to close the deal :-(

João

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:31:25 +0000
> 
> >   https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00635.html
> >
> > and it definitely starts a new thread.
> 
> That's the one I had in mind. It appears in the longer-running "Starting the
> Emacs 27 release cycle" thread as a reply to Bastien's
> https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00129.html
> (as you can see by following the link your posted).

That's the mailman archiving feature being too "smart".  I didn't
remove any Re from the subject, I wrote an entirely new message.  It
just happened to use the same Subject line as some previous
discussion, so mailman decided they were the same thread.  If you
examine the mail headers of my message, you will see that it doesn't
have the other messages in its References header, and no In Reply To,
either.  I hope the MUA you are using to read the mailing list is
smarter than mailman.

> Even though you removed the "Re:" from the subject, Gmail also hides it in the
> same "conversation", so it doesn't stand out as a new thread.

So you may wish to submit a bug report against Gmail for too naïve
threading.

> Maybe I should blame Gmail. I'm working on ditching it, or at least
> the web client,
> but can't seem to close the deal :-(

Using any MUA we have in Emacs will produce much better results.

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 8:33 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

> examine the mail headers of my message, you will see that it doesn't
> have the other messages in its References header, and no In Reply To,
> either.

I believed you the first time, Eli, I don't need to inspect headers :-)

> I hope the MUA you are using to read the mailing list is
> smarter than mailman.

It's not. But I expect many to be using dumb ol Gmail, too. So perhaps
next time you could use a slightly different phrasing, perhaps using past
tense (Started vs Starting).  Just a suggestion.

> > Even though you removed the "Re:" from the subject, Gmail also hides it in the
> > same "conversation", so it doesn't stand out as a new thread.
> So you may wish to submit a bug report against Gmail for too naïve
> threading.

Nah.

> > Maybe I should blame Gmail. I'm working on ditching it, or at least
> > the web client,
> > but can't seem to close the deal :-(
>
> Using any MUA we have in Emacs will produce much better results.

As I've said, I've certainly been trying, and sometimes I do use it, but
remote IMAP is horribly slow (and blocking) and one needs a PHD
to set up mbsync+dovecot/maildir+Gnus.

João

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Juanma Barranquero]

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On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 9:43 PM João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's not. But I expect many to be using dumb ol Gmail, too.

I'm reading emacs-devel through the Gmail web client interface (not IMAP
from
a mail application), and Eli's announcement wasn't dumped with the previous
thread of the same name. It came as a new thread.

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Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 10:25 PM Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm reading emacs-devel through the Gmail web client interface (not IMAP from
> a mail application), and Eli's announcement wasn't dumped with the previous
> thread of the same name. It came as a new thread.

Mine didn't, it threaded it just like Mailman did. So for those of us upon
whom Google's hive mind hasn't inexplicably bestowed premium threading
services, I humbly suggest prefixing the subjects things with sth like
"announce", "psa",  "important", etc.. in the future.,

João

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Mario Lang]

João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 10:25 PM Juanma Barranquero <lekktu@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm reading emacs-devel through the Gmail web client interface (not IMAP from
>> a mail application), and Eli's announcement wasn't dumped with the previous
>> thread of the same name. It came as a new thread.
>
> Mine didn't, it threaded it just like Mailman did. So for those of us upon
> whom Google's hive mind hasn't inexplicably bestowed premium threading
> services,

For the record. I am using Gnus, and "Starting the Emacs 27 release
cycle" was displayed as a new separate thread for me.

Maybe have a chat with your mail client?

-- 
CYa,
  ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 08:31:13 +0000
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> So for those of us upon whom Google's hive mind hasn't inexplicably
> bestowed premium threading services, I humbly suggest prefixing the
> subjects things with sth like "announce", "psa", "important",
> etc.. in the future.,

The exact form of the Subject is not important, because one still can
accidentally produce a Subject identical to some previous one, and the
message will then still be buried in another thread.

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

On Fri, Dec 27, 2019 at 9:17 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> > Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 08:31:13 +0000
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> >
> > So for those of us upon whom Google's hive mind hasn't inexplicably
> > bestowed premium threading services, I humbly suggest prefixing the
> > subjects things with sth like "announce", "psa", "important",
> > etc.. in the future.
>
> The exact form of the Subject is not important, because one still can
> accidentally produce a Subject identical to some previous one, and the
> message will then still be buried in another thread.

Well I'd say the odds of that happening are dramatically reduced,
probably quite minute, provided you follow my suggestion. Don't think
there have been many accidental announcements of the emacs-27 cut
before.

João

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Stefan Monnier]

> So you may wish to submit a bug report against Gmail for too naïve
> threading.

FWIW, I believe it's considered to take extra work to perform this
treading (at least in Gnus, IIRC).  I think "naive" would be to only do
"threading" based on the subject.

It's not uncommon for replies to lack proper In-Reply-To or References
headers, sadly.


        Stefan

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:48:09 +0000
> Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> I will cherry-pick them to 27.1, yes, with the "don't merge" hint.

git-merge.el automatically excluded cherry-picks from merging back to
master, so you need not do anything special, besides invoking "git
cherry-pick" with the -x option.

Re: master 83587bb 1/2: Correctly cache sorted completions in icomplete--sorted-completions

[João Távora]

Ok, thanks.

On Thu, Dec 26, 2019 at 5:22 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > From: João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com>
> > Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2019 11:48:09 +0000
> > Cc: emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> >
> > I will cherry-pick them to 27.1, yes, with the "don't merge" hint.
>
> git-merge.el automatically excluded cherry-picks from merging back to
> master, so you need not do anything special, besides invoking "git
> cherry-pick" with the -x option.



-- 
João Távora