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logging-data="1991"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 62720@debbugs.gnu.org, Robert Pluim , Philip Kaludercic , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, larsi@gnus.org, Eli Zaretskii To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 14 18:32:28 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMLc-0000LR-7y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 18:32:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMLL-0003YD-Lf; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:32:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMLK-0003Xo-9B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 12:32:10 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pnMLC-0007dA-P2 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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bh=vf/gcbOuR76m2NCQkbtBMXhJKJtetskJlINpkRD1Yps=; b=JywXg1z+KqeA350qvbL818RaT/0C55Sv5t80TJPrbnciOzd+SjVI6/M6jszcoUbGcR rtxErYnmbP3tCHHAhGlZ+4fdlmhWhDMs9Puu7Y9zSdl/uzuZKXoRQipmSU/+ynPuW0Vi 5TI+yBoMYUsuT+zi9DDO1AH5//29KNp0sJLkuSK1F0tNYaeJgLuv+VgqbkMiahhy4iRB vr6tTX0xjHq3PXAriNp0TD5FrOXAdUkOiMjHpByKakGU7U7+ZtqiZTh4Yu0h87BySQVg 8PMfI7BMGbTUshoT3DFdetfl1ZgkQAFLaarnbyhH7wRwClcCxfaJmqnoIvVAp/FL90me mCJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AAQBX9cvNdG2qWnvbfm/X/QY8d3vTm2LalVddqfOZqAD1WytnMsniat0 +prQvAjAn7r693kanrm+HAvaEGyv/R48eEvsc10= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AKy350ZRR8gyF6vLfNC32DxQAnGF12pbOTAXvhofRw/oQFPjoZjvI0E7hRFVqsP6rEhvbAXl4199a3PUNbmLN1GsoKM= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:6c0e:0:b0:6a4:3385:7a6f with SMTP id f14-20020a9d6c0e000000b006a433857a6fmr1549919otq.4.1681489895850; Fri, 14 Apr 2023 09:31:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:259938 Archived-At: On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 5:12=E2=80=AFPM Dmitry Gutov wro= te: > > On 14/04/2023 18:34, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 2:52=E2=80=AFPM Robert Pluim = wrote: > > > >> I have no objection to catering to people who have already asked for > >> the installation of a package that is now :core. But one that wasn=CA= =BCt > >> installed explicitly (ie it=CA=BCs only there because Emacs now ships = it) > >> shouldn=CA=BCt be upgraded. > > I think I don't fully understand. > > > > Maybe you can answer this: if a user is setting up Emacs 28 in company > > laptop machines regularly and does M-x package-install RET eglot RET th= ere, > > or has a script with (package-install 'eglot), should or shouldn't this > > user, in your opinion, be allowed to do exactly the same, with the same > > predictable results (in this case getting the latest Eglot), when she s= tarts > > doing the same in Emacs 29, which now contains Eglot as a built-in? > > I think Robert asked whether 'M-x package-menu-mark-upgrades' would mark > Eglot for upgrade even if the user never marked it for upgrade > explicitly before (e.g. with 'M-x package-install'). Sorry, I missed that. This package-menu interface really seems like its own thing, a separate package manager with its own nomenclature and rules. BTW use-package also calls package-install, and (use-package eglot :ensure t) is the number one installation form for Eglot says google, chatGPT and 4 out of 5 bugs I get. Unless special steps are taken there, it will likely be broken, too. That form will no longer give users the latest Eglot starting Emacs 29. Fortunately, though the use-package manual "expects that most users will find [package.el] capable enough", it also explains how to switch away from package.el into a third party package-manager. Given the state of this bug and for their sake, I hope they do. Jo=C3=A3o