From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2021 01:21:49 +0100 Message-ID: References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <831r59kyhf.fsf@gnu.org> <834ka4k15m.fsf@gnu.org> <83y27gijmz.fsf@gnu.org> <87fstm2oeh.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003ac4d105cd3f8db4" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="18015"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Phil Sainty , Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 01 02:22:43 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mW6K3-0004Sw-KI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 02:22:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35162 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mW6K1-0007Uw-N7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:22:41 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37244) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mW6JP-0006p6-CX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x432.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::432]:43810) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mW6JN-0002hS-ON; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 20:22:03 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x432.google.com with SMTP id 187so2022299pfc.10; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HJ/9OqvN1gk3ye0olBRo2L9TbX8wQ5YgushG1RtRGKQ=; b=lLmtIh+KXPFkO7Dho7JbKyVWuNy3ayEjwKaLz/F5C6IQOORB3xacoOpBZoyzcvjLxb ohMxJH9gmkzKLLkCWrgRSrKVV5lxzdcHbnlTaGvxrxvG44faHtQI0pvlbiiJt4BSYWlX GhpVFNVArjEQKPFnEgukvno+3XE9KxdqY8NjpidW5FBxqQRvfAjXOHlHX+geRG5oxtmK xdrx3IYP5un43ljfAFL0xXucdrj9uxK1P9aBuMRRMWBaloZhTocYHN11wE/8CkTfgm+j pYtaj2p6nQ3+/4E0wW183D4UhoeN7z/z+yXlfVBq0riA49d7fqufM8vI2JehP/HUApmN WIWQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HJ/9OqvN1gk3ye0olBRo2L9TbX8wQ5YgushG1RtRGKQ=; b=4L80zhXbAdm8OtecyTOcVkTbr8sePVQqcq6VHUC8u4FqIpS5mqy2PrNY1HE94nBA0d 0Bh3y3W+NV/NV5rvFFY4V5ZHBR30AUwDiHtzysyLU4Ax1dyYG2o7LeWRgwJ/NJRoONFy jJNPOskJEs1ApnxePOvFotL8hxf+gwfOWwEl9iMnNxLedfXpABDzv1HRs1B7moKkNmZx uwCJEOsYI9jzIMYXjQZrKAxE7cRxMh9xJME0IG+s/sj9dS+M6+oa47BUk4vT8SGTaCN/ t3AOpz9/ECn6UCgzRS0UytSYsBxkNTZMc2BIga19coukBarbNg89TusUPFunUJSgxrY4 qn1w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533yyorJz4Lvh6wzXUEaHwyBPq2k3mx8kZNeqD98J0pfpibk8t+y 165/79e9aj+uhVJiyzQhVlvuihAaoGWnrqbbEb8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwSGF+HHbXtrmkK/xxI6bFvPNru27xNZBk/I1tBdUfl/aYUifbcB48xj7x6bx7K0E7TnQ29zx6fB+icMHlF6Ls= X-Received: by 2002:a63:2cce:: with SMTP id s197mr7052221pgs.45.1633047719624; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 17:21:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87fstm2oeh.fsf@gnus.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::432; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x432.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275940 Archived-At: --0000000000003ac4d105cd3f8db4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 2:17 PM Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > > Yes, if we had a more ergonomic syntax for this, then a large portion of > people would be writing > > (require 'gnus-summary :as x) > (require 'xref :as gs) > > etc etc, since this is what they do in many modern languages (and I'm > not much fan of it there, either). But since the syntax is the really > awkward I get your point ;-), but the syntax is not "awkward" (which it is, I admit= ) for no reason. Until you or someone can specify what happens above and below those forms (in terms of buffer positions), or what happens if the require statement is in conditional, we can't "make" better syntax. Thus we need file local values (which could be hoisted up to the starting comments in a Lisp file, I think). But better syntax is possible. You're looking at what SLIME/SLY does with Common Lisp's CL:IN-PACKAGE (which I believe you're familiar with, since you've said you like CL's packages). Jo=C3=A3o --0000000000003ac4d105cd3f8db4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 2:17 PM Lars Ingebrigtsen <larsi@gnus.org> wrote:

Yes, if we had a more ergonomic syntax for this, then a large portion of people would be writing

(require 'gnus-summary :as x)
(require 'xref :as gs)

etc etc, since this is what they do in many modern languages (and I'm not much fan of it there, either).=C2=A0 But since the syntax is the really=
awkward

I get your point ;-), but the= syntax is not "awkward" (which it is, I admit)
for no= reason.=C2=A0

Until you or someone can speci= fy what happens above and below those
forms (in terms of buffer = positions), or what happens if the require statement
is in c= onditional, we can't "make" better syntax.=C2=A0 Thus we need= file local values
(which could be hoisted up to the starting co= mments in a Lisp file, I think).

But better sy= ntax is possible.=C2=A0 You're looking at what SLIME/SLY does with
=
Common Lisp's CL:IN-PACKAGE (which I believe you're fami= liar with, since
you've said you like CL's packages).

Jo=C3=A3o

--0000000000003ac4d105cd3f8db4--