From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Add a separate mode for .dir-locals.el Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2019 12:22:38 +0100 Message-ID: References: <2058328b-aee5-8cb1-2659-a793e1354517@mit.edu> <835zkndcz4.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftjrbjhm.fsf@gnu.org> <83ftjr9sx4.fsf@gnu.org> <83eezb9s5b.fsf@gnu.org> <83bluf9qgb.fsf@gnu.org> <835zkn9o01.fsf@gnu.org> <83lfti8ovn.fsf@gnu.org> <83d0eu8c80.fsf@gnu.org> <83lfth6p0y.fsf@gnu.org> <7f141905-6be3-2c21-e2af-b5926dd80223@gmail.com> <5c9ce9a7-aaa7-8299-e5be-498cb4f2b173@yandex.ru> <8336fo6koq.fsf@gnu.org> <09a6f3b6-6743-fe31-4be8-9283e59753fd@yandex.ru> <83eez64nw3.fsf@gnu.org> <8336fm4li7.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2xe2yvk.fsf@gnu.org> <83sgnm2wl1.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000637d43059569e763" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="171655"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=C3=A9ment_Pit=2DClaudel?= , emacs-devel , Stefan Monnier , Dmitry Gutov To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 21 13:34:10 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iMVwr-000iUO-TD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 13:34:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38484 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iMVwq-0008Pa-Hm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:34:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48923) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iMVm1-0003B5-MD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:22:54 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iMVm0-0001T1-Ea for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:22:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]:41142) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iMVly-0001SK-TC; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 07:22:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id r144so3552309iod.8; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 04:22:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MukpEnmfGzfrflFZFKYzfwuegex0Xy9m+irfazr5LLw=; b=dUXzJAcG7XzQwoiKvLipWfUKRzFm11dvqGalDZ5sjvQ9GpOyevoM8DgTnj8tJ2h+Ma MsJQYQDzWVWwuRXbQfTam5nGcKjmsL4D7X5zjWEBK2ZaWbdgDaq/fazaMFrLNcYl0NSJ l5JBrbsElfyiE71A+8epsY9TBKNjysUP1DB+alIoV1ZPSPO7qBpG6W7vkmbdmypAHk0a aL/2Etrq0/9zZYQPIMOz6AlnSdlHUyEDIrGZGXj1du3XWG2NNJxRC52ouCMH9CefN5Z/ MDNJ+zLPpIVlsEdz2dVmwb6k9S1TbDk6ts3oa5zJhrd/jMJP7HsBtxMWsh57ECWYwBpO SL1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MukpEnmfGzfrflFZFKYzfwuegex0Xy9m+irfazr5LLw=; b=A1bou6ZoqxSKYVrbjhPuf9MyJlL/KiI1Y+TT6H6uTMyAD0TXiL1QCuwcLaIqgLN2L4 lU2fQhYp64hge0t/hk/2MKB5rpMRanLtOTfKaKrjgM6qJlaywNK30norhSIc+J1OEJeW Y/9LQAmwlah/Pf0EQ7WUincpO97Lqxk7+iRx4VqxwrRCPPm21twywnio5ozNiFXY8aQB LlDM1O0PTJe+4xGqfDd0VP3St+i2bJSKnbccSqh7TTCsNw9G+z66Sf3RiVQUvXDcFB+3 /2PtEKeTsketXXlupKlF8I1w1VFYgElDCWIu/N32Ha+TSOXOKZrYkUOa7YZagPmiaii5 YiPw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUkNVjHLPTlGdjnkJP2SlOLkWzQikNl8Ife5qfMsmOTftNdqcac s5s0LucsOMDnxo8t/GeP9OzMOljrTZKXjwwjUbCN5oZO X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwKqH2hvKy0yfy5RUlFRQv+/k9M3AYudmmS8HUPR12r9SzZkp3ObSwxduBNMHUAWA3lLezHVw5IZsIBijmJxIg= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b2d5:: with SMTP id b204mr1925336iof.137.1571656969713; Mon, 21 Oct 2019 04:22:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83sgnm2wl1.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:241292 Archived-At: --000000000000637d43059569e763 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:59 AM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > There is no "Lisp program", only "Lisp data". A program is Lisp data > that makes sense as a program. Yes, and your last sentence describes exactly what I like to call a "Lisp program". Let's just agree to give it that name, OK. So that it "exists" (in fact a large part of Emacs is made up of the stuff). > The argument is not about the need for a fix, it's about where the fix > should be. Ideally, the byte-compiler should have got its act > together and not attempted to produce code out of those files. > Failing that, we need to help the byte compiler DTRT. It's been shown many times the problem is not exclusive to the byte-compiler. It's merely an example of a tool that only makes exclusive sense for "Lisp programs", or "data that makes sense as a program" as you put it. > > This was also already said several times. > > By you, exclusively, right? Or by someone else I missed? > Also by Andreas and by Richard. Not true of Richard: he said "All code is data, but only some data is code". That is exactly the distinction I am making. Jo=C3=A3o --000000000000637d43059569e763 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:59 AM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> There is no &q= uot;Lisp program", only "Lisp data".=C2=A0 A program is Lisp= data
> that makes sense as a program.

= Yes, and your last sentence describes exactly what I like to
call a "Lisp program". Let's just agree to give it that name= ,
OK. So that it "exists" (in fact a large part of= Emacs is made
up of the stuff).

> The argum= ent is not about the need for a fix, it's about where the fix
> s= hould be.=C2=A0 Ideally, the byte-compiler should have got its act
> = together and not attempted to produce code out of those files.
>= Failing that, we need to help the byte compiler DTRT.

=
It's been shown many times the problem is not exclusive to the
byte-compiler. It's merely an example of a tool that only m= akes
exclusive sense for "Lisp programs", or "= ;data that makes sense
as a program" as you put it.

> > =C2=A0This was also already said several ti= mes.
> > By you, exclusively, right?=C2=A0 Or by someone else I mi= ssed?
> Also by Andreas and by Richard.
Not= true of Richard: he said "All code is data, but only some
<= div>data is code". That is exactly the distinction I am making.

Jo=C3=A3o
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