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Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 23:41:06 +0100 Message-ID: References: <87a6jt7ilx.fsf@web.de> <87fstlzlaq.fsf@gmail.com> <20211001070242.GC16352@tuxteam.de> <1dd5e2c1f42bce50dc26@heytings.org> <6969a83a74f7bebe69f2@heytings.org> <6969a83a74b57d3d7839@heytings.org> <6969a83a7447c1963410@heytings.org> <6969a83a74ab69ebd555@heytings.org> <6969a83a74f286a96423@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9185"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Gregory Heytings , tomas@tuxteam.de, Stefan Kangas , emacs-devel , Dmitry Gutov To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 03 00:42:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWnht-0002E1-H0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Oct 2021 00:42:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56460 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWnhs-0004UI-Di for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 18:42:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49656) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWnh0-0003cB-Gb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 18:41:18 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]:47027) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWngy-0001XY-QL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 18:41:18 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id w11so8590153plz.13 for ; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 15:41:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GdQele6TehT75lBxTJ+nrJ+9b5dRUHczwjR16ZxWAjM=; b=PszJCOBMZPBK/Bmpwphp/Koo1EKG2hgQCORIgh7iSwh3BUGMNVZYxVRT3Iy5PBtSie MijCmplv/idPpnGxf9HavCIR6Xoy00+ECci2s7YumsXLWfVIYmUX0hgVslFlCbZxlXXW YHP/G1PBT4Pklig66xHFDLjvgglG4bvbjCZV/46uGG30SzkeUA48YsEY4M8LgeGxuc0l O3wIdbsnBClCUwOkOHJLfGf0hwN+3yNPooINMNBIK0IYqM7ksQUIoZ+jJQDgan8NAzHp NJ2tYOYw0GqhqSg+kPXonzvYWl8YAo+510v0s4hALEA1jQKHlhzhiVIcIEWZntXFPuT1 PgBA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GdQele6TehT75lBxTJ+nrJ+9b5dRUHczwjR16ZxWAjM=; b=uYDZHXHshJD7WgVFWFvuPZpT9cSMKbSH/rYDY0cYBc3kwFe2kuvJ9wV+I9bqYBCij3 X1mTTEk39EQtejQiY9tZj+slErh/JWjAB1xFdWWIY0BfswG33NbM06OL9i5D7iBbagJb yT8RQ2/AkVQq5wr0Rnwh9eK1LN5md5XDc4fTM0ak6RZzlLG9sLd2p0C9gS49fQ5PXp6s iAnDnAK9BG3KEW3v42sQC+bb8y9d7E09bRdeM8S3qNygNb6HqpL1vG/razIUAF50JJ6e ebJb5/4vpwPkZ3eqRhe+SbSAWGcwMtAkFB5P3TTdKlR0Vkt1Vs3cCbrCA94Qx1JVexhz 03Rw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531iQIoBzymnRvM+qSYWlKL2rohYxNMrOpVTdTJFBxZYLyuUSz75 wxrNm4gxvjuKL5obxZZkUQPsuLuBAAGhID895eI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEBjdRqbVfCbLed8qqVM82dnDzWBItyQBhduNKr//AdyfNVBQog6rMoFruPupMU5NdT+hJrmaduPUmbVoHxJo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:edc3:b0:13c:957d:63fa with SMTP id q3-20020a170902edc300b0013c957d63famr16016117plk.79.1633214475191; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 15:41:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276086 Archived-At: On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 10:14 PM Stefan Monnier w= rote: > > > Didn't you, Stefan Monnier of the University of Montreal (hehe), author > > a paper for the ELS where you discuss Elisp and namespaces? I think > > I saw it once, but can't find the link, am I dreaming? > > It must have been in a dream, I'm afraid. I only once gave a talk at > ELS, and that was an invited talk about ELisp in general. > I can't remember the details, but I likely mentioned something about > namespace during the talk at some point, but probably more along the > lines of "things that still didn't happen". Ah! It wasn't a dream, but it wasn't for ELS either. It's in your personal webpage: https://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~monnier/hopl-4-emacs-lisp.pdf "While Emacs Lisp was designed from the beginning as a real programming language rather than a tiny ad-hoc extension language, it was not designed for =C5=82programming in the large=C5=BE as witnessed by the lack of module or namespace system. Yet, the Emacs Lisp side of Emacs is now a rather large system, so in order to avoid name conflicts, Emacs Lisp relies on a poor man=E2=80=99s namespace system," Section 8.11 > The only time I submitted a paper to ELS (so far) it was not about Emacs > (and it was rejected ;-). The world isn't ready for your genius, Stefan.