From: "João Távora" <joaotavora@gmail.com>
To: Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: A modern-mode?
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2020 14:04:41 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CALDnm51eBE1zW+6g6qtOYLciahT8Rff3+5_vTg9wghE1PhymUQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <VI1PR06MB452688A7538FDA07C2D266CB96210@VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
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On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 1:40 PM Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com>
wrote:
> João Távora <joaotavora@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > I just meant the "custom-themes"
> > infrastructure should be enough to accommodate enough of
> > the proposed "modern-mode". Not sure if it is (as I don't use it).
> No, it is not. It lacks unified framework to use as logicla names for
> color use; someting similar to what you have in <h1>, <h2>, ... <h8> in
> html, just as example. Instead people use rgb values directly in their
> packages, and when user changes a theme, packages does not follow. So
> theme engine in Emacs needs a little additional work.
>
In theming, Emacs works with faces, not with colors. Those
would seem to be sufficient logical placeholders for
various types of colors. But indeed my message suffered
from this confusion, too.
> > I'm
> > almost always wary of giants or grand reinventions of things.
> > For the "base" Emacs experience that is, in their setups people
> > can use all the ivys, dooms, helms and magits they want.
> I understand your sentiment, but then, you could say this for any
> feature, inclusive fido-mode or icomplete or even find-file.
>
I don't think you can. It's because of their simplicity that they
are much better integrated into Emacs's infrastructure. Compare
the number of lines and the number of configuration options
in fido-mode/icomplete-mode to the same number in those other
packages. These are leaner packages, they follow the existing
infrastructure as much as possible, rather than reinvent it.
But if the complexity comparison isn't satisfying to you, it's easy
to note that changes to the infrastructure, i.e. completion styles,
are "naturally" absorbed by icomplete-mode and fido-mode,
whereas a package such as Helm had to go through great
efforts to support them (reasonably recently). And Ivy still
doesn't support them, as far as I know. In another example,
multiple reinventions of the "imenu" display frontend, which read
the menu item information directly have failed to account for
recent augmentation of that format. Fido-mode provides a
different visualization of M-x imenu without suffering from
those problems, playing along with M-x imenu, rather than
re-implemeting it. Reinventing a parallel infrastructure, easy as
it is to do in Lisp/Emacs, has those very real drawbacks.
Just as an illustration one could argue that "simpler" open-file as
> found in other software packages is what "casual" users would expext.
>
Yes, you can argue that. I would maybe agree, though I wouldn't agree
we should give those users exactly what they "expect", because they
"expect" VSCode, I guess. But making a custom theme allow such
modifications is what is needed, in my opinion. Then, if I'm mistaken,
enabling that idea is just a few clicks away.
Personally I would like to see ffap being enabled as default ...
>
Don't understand this bit. I use ffap a lot and don't need to "enable"
anything, just M-x ffap. Is it a mode?
João
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2020-09-16 13:04 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 96+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-09-15 14:41 A modern-mode? Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 14:51 ` Ergus
2020-09-16 0:16 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 15:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-15 15:26 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-15 16:34 ` Teemu Likonen
2020-09-15 18:36 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 21:08 ` Antoine Kalmbach
2020-09-16 4:15 ` Teemu Likonen
2020-09-16 7:52 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 15:13 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-15 16:31 ` Theodor Thornhill
2020-09-15 15:56 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-15 16:47 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
[not found] ` <a4bc94ca-3130-463a-bd79-3dbffbbce492@default>
2020-09-15 17:11 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 17:32 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-15 17:35 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-15 18:47 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-15 20:48 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 0:07 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 8:58 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 9:03 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-16 10:39 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-16 10:47 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 12:20 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-16 5:14 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 7:27 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 7:36 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 8:36 ` Alan Third
2020-09-16 14:37 ` Drew Adams
2020-09-16 15:00 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-16 15:22 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-17 3:54 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-16 10:30 ` Göktuğ Kayaalp
2020-09-16 11:17 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 14:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-16 14:46 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 21:53 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-16 15:18 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-16 15:33 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 15:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-16 15:54 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-16 16:17 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 16:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-16 16:32 ` Noam Postavsky
2020-09-16 16:45 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 16:30 ` Alan Third
2020-09-16 16:45 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 22:11 ` arthur miller
2020-09-16 21:54 ` Dmitry Gutov
2020-09-16 15:18 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-16 15:27 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2020-09-16 16:45 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-17 3:58 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-17 4:45 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2020-09-17 9:54 ` Lars Brinkhoff
2020-09-18 4:09 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-16 16:45 ` tomas
2020-09-16 21:47 ` arthur miller
2020-09-16 18:19 ` Daniel Martín
2020-09-16 18:45 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-16 18:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-09-16 20:02 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-16 21:36 ` Alan Third
2020-09-17 0:11 ` arthur miller
2020-09-17 19:17 ` Alan Third
2020-09-17 19:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-09-17 19:54 ` arthur miller
2020-09-18 4:50 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-17 3:18 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-16 21:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-09-17 3:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-09-16 8:15 ` Ergus
2020-09-16 7:33 ` Robert Pluim
2020-09-16 8:55 ` tomas
2020-09-16 9:36 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 9:48 ` tomas
2020-09-16 9:54 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 10:20 ` tomas
2020-09-16 10:30 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 10:53 ` tomas
2020-09-16 11:09 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 12:40 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-16 13:04 ` João Távora [this message]
2020-09-16 14:10 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-16 15:26 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 15:43 ` Thibaut Verron
2020-09-16 15:45 ` João Távora
2020-09-16 14:20 ` Arthur Miller
2020-09-16 16:42 ` tomas
2020-09-16 21:46 ` arthur miller
2020-09-17 19:28 ` Alan Third
2020-09-17 19:47 ` arthur miller
2020-09-16 12:32 ` Arthur Miller
[not found] <<xjfmu1rrtks.fsf@sdf.org>
[not found] ` <<E1kIPmO-0001u5-0m@fencepost.gnu.org>
2020-09-16 14:37 ` Drew Adams
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