From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: Forwards-Compatibility Library for Emacs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:22:27 +0100 Message-ID: References: <877dfavmzw.fsf@posteo.net> <87czp2c6qd.fsf@gnus.org> <8735pxsydv.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9600"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 21 18:24:28 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mSiZI-0002LG-Dv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:24:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43612 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSiZG-0005Kf-FO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 12:24:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45096) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSiXa-000433-On for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 12:22:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pg1-x534.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::534]:39920) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSiXZ-0005yE-1w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 12:22:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pg1-x534.google.com with SMTP id g184so21196916pgc.6 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:22:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x7m/8fCRZKExq9Gj5RyX+rCHj7FEbYDFRnBXWgGxAcs=; b=NLqgA9hxVmGD5NHtyX/44ItYjTn6Zpw7rh6IwqKaMUc1t6LXOpT08tBO1i4idbvvui fOBrZdhKDF3/lCjtbP6o7FydQ77wVXVgES3fq2yactABonmZ9f4DL9tkEfw6mc8XzWVv 4b1y3Pl/uMQLvrjJWLYEeuD8nZslVXdl3kFupC2CsPR3vtNW2WsFal53hcmvsHYe0Oad jzcGVNn4QLQJ+5ANPR8sUaKtrgZrmCfo1DZNLQju3KQ6Po0MHKh6zdBhoLqWgQDyCtUj yb4fDnPgy1oA6d6CTIprKmfVppE+qhap8gQ6jXi/n0iz/+6R1eNUr1JK8Efdo5atTJh6 SwNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=x7m/8fCRZKExq9Gj5RyX+rCHj7FEbYDFRnBXWgGxAcs=; b=SVnKBH8ZKGK4l9tEl9T5AcPEtO0XMrC2vmklwm5+1L53ntGknVm3RtWnizNSBng+tG aCq7TuDshHl5rRT7imz1X+ApNH+TGjG++v9gau9n3vGLj7YnW6pj+EFGi2Ts69928Vhw gWc12isdKGc+tTtHZ70YZmqtzyya+gA/kB3gMelMWSSKn+QDW+jx3gvA4brZxYLpaFi4 sgrM7UN2lk9u6YUIHmVM8ebucDqsu+vQy6WOx1Rj4Bv1GusEb0RQQDVUtXGGTfdylhgi SBP/XCbEZbBHkAtOYm5cTOOy4AYDuiQzRM2dUmNtTf0OBhpCFpP3uPLny4UiW8T03iSj 68BA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531BDfTF2O+FBhoziBiHsuwI8qbr/Xv+KPzAUco4pOC5vr1SJRCh zKu50QYkUsd+JlGA4XxqZBUB+cWKlTRBSwY1+t8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwzQuoVDtOCJ271p8IZ3BR2S3Sfc8Tt1jdItEmmr/7kSIENgF7dZIopBALbIQEhqd1XAtsiEOfRWLM+9y1Gcpk= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:24d0:b0:448:29d1:518f with SMTP id d16-20020a056a0024d000b0044829d1518fmr3764874pfv.72.1632241359247; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:22:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8735pxsydv.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::534; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x534.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275250 Archived-At: Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 5:10 PM Philip Kaludercic wrote: > > Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora writes: > > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 4:02 PM Lars Ingebrigtsen wrot= e: > > > >> The point here is to not to have any separate namespace, so that you c= an > >> just can put core packages into ELPA without doing any rewrites. > >> > >> What's the concrete risk here? > > > > It was Philip who described as "intrusive", "by its very nature", > > since it relies on advice and such. This can be seen as "dirty" in its= elf. > > But say that the contract/promise that a given function in Emacs 28 mak= es > > is different from the promise that the same function in Emacs 24.2 make= s. > > The new ELPA code doesn't have a problem, but you have potential proble= m > > to all the other 24.2 code that expects the "old promise". Right? > > Yes, that is why full compatibility isn't possible, but on the other > hand, these kinds of changes are not that common to begin with. That's true, but they do happen. Emacs is not fully 100% backward compatible. I don't have the biggest of pictures in my head, but for me the solution lies in providing more and more packages as :core. In the Eglot circle, for example, most of the flymake.el, project.el, xref.el, jsonrpc.el dependencies are themselves :core ELPA packages. So Emacs 26.3 users can use Eglot with all the latest and greatest that is in trunk, Just my 2 cents, Jo=C3=A3o