From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [ELPA] New package: transient Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 13:20:06 +0100 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="13596"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Philippe Vaucher , tomas@tuxteam.de, Emacs developers , Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman To: =?UTF-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 02 14:21:03 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jUr8g-0003SB-TS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 14:21:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39220 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUr8f-0006cn-WD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:21:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58330) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUr83-000684-Et for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:20:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUr83-0002T2-1C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:20:23 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-io1-xd2b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b]:42338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUr80-0002Qg-HH; Sat, 02 May 2020 08:20:20 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-io1-xd2b.google.com with SMTP id e9so7401908iok.9; Sat, 02 May 2020 05:20:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+G1bDcnl4alj3XhOV5ksmb/5zUl/c+Ni74GA/rJQSKg=; b=cTGj8DgcNCgqFT+E1jJOxYGBN+Qt57k4797Rqw9YQrA7V9bCOU+6b/YvF0bqfPb7Ou GqjsUFWvKBYctb85NePHL4RVAWR9m5xtnrXcVX8UbGMWdlpmdcN+TbxD4FKVP2YwA6eI H7+4USUJ3EOm7KtRug8ku/oJZ09Jm34CQNDoDbsI5/G8k/44BCKiBHPqoOj6KperzOvO ijlgi4nmMq3CPCYVMdXuoWAHPvVYwOqd6tUOmIOSdrV46Ia1I4C4Job0vbpaKzNaeaBw lJPW4L/ASmiwPquYS2gcwKilBJTrMuPBSV+kBtEJZKoCTD2+Zhqozgc1y53nB66s1w21 NEww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+G1bDcnl4alj3XhOV5ksmb/5zUl/c+Ni74GA/rJQSKg=; b=qrOC19WnknoMfQO6ZHQ/VQSqW+W35hV7NcYuVzH5+n9lrYSA9ItUvp4498eH+qjDUt Su/JiZK3y51G6ct/QHK/UqeDJgBuObblh+gXo+3EBNdrLuKMJu6YK/fv60qfLpydH8MW SfdjwVO8d7o0PRFbWH3QUuP2vazbYHkbMFlOC6PdExN4qDipiEZGRY1r3Fx8mqoytM0Z Kx6CtMjuWtHsi7SPV3d/2fXKI4IOaNxGeKWQaRNA0zJUp6V3qONmQMTCZ/OYzeax7y3W I4C+rJicS11OeHIaIYJ2pQMCN371VuVGYPoliYZjKobjth06FhHPzq29v/dHSAQEVg+P Mxuw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubtR87giDEiUAorig0SLVjgm3yr27nStouWqkV8e5ZjGngvNWlF qA+cyTItRF3U9d9mVDeRatQbiE5vhYSOfavaIQU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJU90oMXDGThadd+dPe6bk91SEQe2A13N4hvKGhM22x8KNsb+YJyb59at3vChiY92r8b4erRn44kJqNCAtWrek= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:6a13:: with SMTP id x19mr7866285iog.175.1588422017800; Sat, 02 May 2020 05:20:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-io1-xd2b.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: [-] PROGRAM ABORT : Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). Location : parse_addr6(), p0f-client.c:67 X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:248416 Archived-At: On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 1:11 PM =EC=A1=B0=EC=84=B1=EB=B9=88 wrote: > > > 2020. 5. 2. =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 9:03, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1: > > =EF=BB=BF > On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 12:40 PM Philippe Vaucher wrote: > >> > >> > Interesting point. I think that could work, but wouldn't it be much = easier if the language itself was self-documenting? > >> > >> Maybe, but that entails changing the language, by definition. And you > >> will face resistance because languages are things people kinda grow > >> accustomed to. Imagine if I told you the French language should now > >> also include all the words of Portuguese, because, you know, they're > >> just better. Even worse with macros. It's like I told you not only you > >> have to learn Portuguese words, but its grammar, too. > > > > > > Well I propose to add new-style APIs. People can still use the old ones= . > > But they would have to learn to read programs in the new stuff, no? > > > Well learning the new stuff will be much easier & predictive if done well= (and that=E2=80=99s the point). OK, but don't you think it's a little presumptuous to assume that? To assume that people will find (your) new language easier make space for it in their minds? Languages, especially the general purpose parts of language, are very personal and cultural. Can't you see how this has certain echoes of proclaiming a certain new-age culture superior to an older one? Certainly, this is just software and not exactly world domination, but still... Jo=C3=A3o