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(was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 00:10:28 +0100 Message-ID: References: <25d8d72022b571db5291@heytings.org> <87h7e2xsl5.fsf@gmail.com> <25d8d72022e1ea7ed022@heytings.org> <87fstl7lzw.fsf@web.de> <87a6jt7ilx.fsf@web.de> <87fstlzlaq.fsf@gmail.com> <20211001070242.GC16352@tuxteam.de> <1dd5e2c1f4c4adca682f@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28432"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel To: Gregory Heytings Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 02 01:14:19 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRjP-0007DC-Fa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Oct 2021 01:14:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47330 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRjN-0007xP-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:14:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40916) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRfz-0004qH-6A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:10:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pl1-x629.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::629]:42626) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWRfr-0005fa-VX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 19:10:44 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pl1-x629.google.com with SMTP id l6so7224536plh.9 for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 16:10:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mqaFjF7x65sE0FHhHYVijLZMyMZtdL5oGdX6onIJkJs=; b=Pz+js/dyfkd1r6krNgpK2ko2Il8VgI3FpGQsSnM9W9kRL2e9svLdp+1j5dybYrDN+d 1jTpi7g9Q4+erBzLaLurKK9oYeHFxBXjyLuAECKUEaRfAqqrtDkguZsFwjwu6OeND4Qo NhNZ02dghEYUWmSfAD29WzxRr5+4euYNj2744NVMu3hYLlgBUPYwV72TW67xMg5xp2ZS c9zJJ4a1H+uHnv3CsuGFZQCtQ0XmQ6awX8+EnxxeWlg91mWBh6JrYHMQXHpisSDuLQ5B 7XY1ks5Rxke95Y4QB0bziT4TvDzGt6CFolNlpkx8b4vyoX+keueG/8zEn3gqsF8enT+/ c4KA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mqaFjF7x65sE0FHhHYVijLZMyMZtdL5oGdX6onIJkJs=; b=Wh28kjerHoC2wgAgtUYuEaz6YTekBQUhQcvhqpn72SzErWZcIBgE6YLLP8veu9qz+A Vsp3z/NgKVizwWfLl5afNQayWHKVsXJ8iI+aQbti6Oef0d7wix4w3O3/slMA8qSapMPJ 9gtKFH3b26nwNvbcIalD2/NszO2Yy3dUw4cccLZcr4gTJRBy5KNuS16Rv68OkB07NYqW 8b/c1bIlSUm1IH0eEZTYPFWS1AVFVm7yhhW/viz3Z/Nf81l/caLGXLO8fb3vcdk802Ld +yfzJk4nF7IHhh8BRxja4EB7wZ5DOW5JyJE9ey6W5TUrb1+oK9eKw5p2Wg/QE3xTa97E MjdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531SYewAG2TVnUWRaLg96u3ZxiymCppRq/7rJY3Nsc2CmLvXqGt2 0m6k+E4KbnKiklp1mgq6SXClb+Ce+9higbmfQAP9EdQRbIg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJznkHC2n8fH5raa8dOGpfYYBXhr+ZSMQ5DlYvVucSgzmofZEnx6FHvKZtOSRT9TzzFJnKHxcX2i0+tnSb9yDAg= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:edc3:b0:13c:957d:63fa with SMTP id q3-20020a170902edc300b0013c957d63famr11722061plk.79.1633129837888; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 16:10:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1dd5e2c1f4c4adca682f@heytings.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::629; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x629.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:276025 Archived-At: On Fri, Oct 1, 2021 at 11:58 PM Gregory Heytings wro= te: > The objections raised in this discussion are not only about grep. But in this thread, we're discussing a grep-like, so please don't derail it with the same points rebutted over and over. > They > are also about tag systems (that can do more complex operations than grep > on source files), and about the problem of code readability for Elisp > programmers. All of a sudden symbols can silently be transformed by > 'read' without any clear indication that such a transformation takes > place. I'm getting a bit tired of stressing that things with no "clear indication"= are what higher level-languages are about: anonymous functions, macros, etc abstraction in general. Namespaces are also that: you may not like them but they exist everywhere else for a reason. But for shorthands, it's probably very easy to highlight them with font-loc= k. Does this count as "clear indication"? What about ElDoc showing you the real name of the symbol in the echo area? Anyway, if you want to propose a patch for font-lock in Elisp, I think it will be accepted. Jo=C3=A3o